Furlough

[Gooseygoosey12345]

DH was furloughed in the first lockdown. He works in a sector that is not essential. His company have now twisted the rules and are claiming that their staff are key workers. Can they do this? Surely if they furloughed everyone in the first lockdown that would mean that they were not key workers?

In my daughters class 15 kids are back as parents “classifies” themselves as key workers. They got letter provided by the company. People are bending rules and my kids school are currently at 50% capacity. This is clearly not lockdown. I understand that companies are under pressure but it is simply not right. So I don’t think it is right but I’m aware that the rules slightly changed since last lockdown too

I agree with you. Luckily I can be at home with the children but it means my studying will suffer massively. It's not right that companies are putting their staff and their staff's families at risk, and potentially lengthen this lockdown, because they're greedy. It's just insane when they've literally told them "we'll stay open while we're making money". How is it even allowed!

"we'll stay open while we're making money". That's what they are supposed to be doing! If they can make the workplace covidsafe or people can work from home businesses are supposed to carry on working UNLESS they are in the list of business tyes that had to close... like clothes shops, personal groomiong etc.

Furlough isn't, never was, supposed to be for everyone in every job. And many companies have worked on making their business viable during lockdowns since the first one.

It is allowed because there has to be a compromise between covid safety and commerce.

I don’t think you understand the point of furlough @Gooseygoosey12345

It’s not an automatic right, although he can request for childcare reasons.

So would you rather they shut down and post lockdown your husband has no job to return to?

If company's haven't been forced to close by the government (non essential retail, hairdresser etc) then I didn't think they were eligible for any support.

So they have to be open or they'll go bust.

It's a shit situation but how it is.9

YABU.

It was never the case that only essential businesses should stay open. Everything was allowed to stay open other than a few named types of businesses including non essential retail, gyms, beauticians and similar.

Do you actually want your husbands company to go under and add to the bankruptcy of our country? Just so your husband can be paid without going to work for a few more months.

The company is spot on to stay open whilst they are making money, obviously have more sense than you. Villa

*no idea why a random Villa appeared on my post.

I was furloughed last time but not this time (thank god!).

Too many companies shut up shop unnecessarily last time (for example the construction industry).

The more that can stay open then better, in all honesty.

Is your question whether he should be furloughed again, or whether it’s right for them to name previously-furloughed staff as key workers? I think it’s the latter so will answer that- I agree with you. In most cases (not all), I don’t see how someone who was furloughed last time around is suddenly an essential worker. But lots of businesses are doing it- I think that the definition of key worker is way too broad to be honest.

(If you’re asking whether he should be furloughed again then my answer is absolutely not).

I do think if they were furloughed last time it’s unreasonable to now claim they’re key workers. Although some key workers may have been furloughed due to childcare reasons, if they were furloughed because the company shut its clearly not essential services.

But that doesn’t mean he should be furloughed now if the company is able to stay open this time

I think it depends on the sector, if OP could shed light which sector they are in that might help the discussion.

In general if you aren’t a key worker and can wfh then you should be trying to work from home with the kids. It’s a rubbish situation for everyone but it’s not normal times.

I can understand why businesses are trying though, if they don’t they might go under.

It’s hard as it’s a double edge sword. Roll on 2022???

They absolutely will not go under, they can't make it Covid safe (literally not possible) and they should be closed according to guidelines. But my point was that they shouldn't be classed as key workers when they aren't. This means that technically they could be using school places, surely as many people should be keeping their children at home as possible.
Maybe I'm being unreasonable. I think it's because the company have made many immoral but not quite illegal decisions over the years and I'm just annoyed with the whole attitude of lots of businesses these days (Pre-covid)

Businesses dont have to close if they're not essential but cant claim they're essential to get school places. Although it sounds like they're trying to help their employees by doing this so they're not stuck for childcare.

The government has said over and over that if you cant work from home then you should go to work unless the sector you work in has been specifically told to close. Loads of businesses are still running and they just have to be trying to mitigate the risks, so if you can't social distance you increase cleaning kind of thing.

He shouldn't be furloughed again just because he's not an essential worker but you shouldn't use a school place if you dont need it.

@notinthiseconomy

I was furloughed last time but not this time (thank god!).

Too many companies shut up shop unnecessarily last time (for example the construction industry).

The more that can stay open then better, in all honesty.

I agree. We closed our company down, as did many of our customers. Everyone bouncing emails around about what we were doing about covid and that we'd all be closing up shop. None of that this time. Businesses cant afford to not have an income for a year, even if we furloughed everyone, we have expenses other than wages to think about and we're getting no support this time. Unless you've been ordered to close there isn't anything. Last time we all got grants to carry us through, that's how we all managed to close. And some still went bust.

We can get £500 quid if you can prove that Covid has directly caused you substantial loss. £500 down over a year isn't even a substantial loss so either you dont qualify or it doesn't scratch the surface.

@Gooseygoosey12345 no you are 100% right if they can stay open that’s fine but they shouldn’t be classing themselves as key workers if they aren’t. If they can’t be Covid safe, then they need to put better measures in place (reduced numbers on sites / private testing) or allow everyone to wfh.

I read McDonald’s were classing themselves as key workers the other day due to it being a food business 🧐

[quote Astormofswords]@Gooseygoosey12345 no you are 100% right if they can stay open that’s fine but they shouldn’t be classing themselves as key workers if they aren’t. If they can’t be Covid safe, then they need to put better measures in place (reduced numbers on sites / private testing) or allow everyone to wfh.

I read McDonald’s were classing themselves as key workers the other day due to it being a food business 🧐[/quote]
That's ridiculous!

I think DH would be much happier if they'd taken those precautions. One of his colleagues was "told off" because he stayed home one day to wait for his test results. They could do flexible furlough, or furlough some of the staff with the volume of work there is which would also make it safer for everyone, and surely save them money too. It just irritates me that they've claimed them as key workers which minimises those who actually are!
They've apparently tried to get the vaccine for their staff too (without asking them if they'd actually want it) which I think is disgusting to even consider. None of them would come into the priority categories so they'll be laughed at, but just the pure cheek of it!

@Godimabitch

Businesses dont have to close if they're not essential but cant claim they're essential to get school places. Although it sounds like they're trying to help their employees by doing this so they're not stuck for childcare.

The government has said over and over that if you cant work from home then you should go to work unless the sector you work in has been specifically told to close. Loads of businesses are still running and they just have to be trying to mitigate the risks, so if you can't social distance you increase cleaning kind of thing.

He shouldn't be furloughed again just because he's not an essential worker but you shouldn't use a school place if you dont need it.

I'd love to think they were doing it so no one would be stuck for childcare, but they definitely aren't judging by the communication and general attitude overall.

I know a mum who works for a broadband company who got issued the letter to show it to school she is a key worker (as there is a telecommunications industry in the key worker list). However she does wfh. Companies are putting a massive pressure on their employees to use this card unfortunately...everyone’s situation is different but I believe that there is no point of lockdown if everyone suddenly is key worker and schools are at 50% capacities. This is ridiculous! How we are going to bring those numbers down if the schools across the country are full. I’m totally favoured to send kids to school but my daughter is at home even if I could send her to school. I spoke today to a key worker, she works evening shifts at care home and she actually keeps her kids at home as she said she doesn’t feel it is fair if she is at home during a day. I don’t know how she is doing it after a night shift but clearly she can. Schools should be last resorts right now

Surely furlough should be the exception rather than an option for all. What would he be doing if furloughed? The company does not need to be essential to continue, just within the guidelines and presumably his work cannot be done at home.

@Uzaj

I know a mum who works for a broadband company who got issued the letter to show it to school she is a key worker (as there is a telecommunications industry in the key worker list). However she does wfh. Companies are putting a massive pressure on their employees to use this card unfortunately...everyone’s situation is different but I believe that there is no point of lockdown if everyone suddenly is key worker and schools are at 50% capacities. This is ridiculous! How we are going to bring those numbers down if the schools across the country are full. I’m totally favoured to send kids to school but my daughter is at home even if I could send her to school. I spoke today to a key worker, she works evening shifts at care home and she actually keeps her kids at home as she said she doesn’t feel it is fair if she is at home during a day. I don’t know how she is doing it after a night shift but clearly she can. Schools should be last resorts right now

Yes exactly. The cases aren't going to come down much if we carry on as normal and we'll be in this for longer

@LIZS

Surely furlough should be the exception rather than an option for all. What would he be doing if furloughed? The company does not need to be essential to continue, just within the guidelines and presumably his work cannot be done at home.

To a certain extent, but if nothing closes then surely lockdown is pointless? It was more the fact that they're trying to claim that they are key workers when they aren't which I think is unacceptable.

I absolutely agree they shouldn't be pretending to be key workers. Although I cant see that you've mentioned the industry so we may disagree if they're key workers. There are lost of things that are essential that we take for granted. Lots of labourers are essential when you need them. Just dont use the school space if you dont need it. That's the only advantage they're gaining.

And I agree that businesses should close again but the government needs to support them. Last lockdown we got 10k, it didn't cover my losses, but it covered what needed covering. And work still hasn't picked up, I haven't earned that money back, I was still earning less after lockdown ended, so now I have less fallback than I did a year ago, I cant afford to close again especially without support and I think that's the case for everyone right now, very few businesses we know aren't struggling right now.

I work for an independent school and we have all been given key worker letters. We will be furloughing some staff next week so it is possible to be both.