Why are domestic builders carrying on completely as normal?

[pinbinpin]

We're in a T4 area, cases going up etc etc. Everyone is getting on with the boring restrictions, none of the neighbours appeared to have anyone round over xmas and NY etc.

My immediate neighbours are building an extension - 3 different vans/vehicles turned up today, each with 5/6 people in them, different contractors, no one wearing masks. All of them yelling at the tops of their voices all day and blowing smoke right underneath my office window. All of them using one portaloo.

I know people are allowed to work but shouldn't there be some restrictions on building work like everywhere else? Shouldn't they be taking some covid precautions? If I went into my office in London when we were in T3 I wasn't allowed in the building without a mask and hand sanitising. Same at all the GPs/hospitals I've visited over the period. Everyone had to sit apart with chairs/desks removed in between. Two of them are young builders mates, look about 17, it really doesn't seem like a "covid-safe" workplace for them. Are the rules really just "carry on as you were lads" for builders and tradespeople?

@HelloDaisy

That's good to hear. Also good to hear that there are at least guidelines that they SHOULD be following.

You're right - I am only seeing the one next door and the other 4 that I walk/run past on my street. I assumed that all small domestic sites were taking no measures which was wrong of me - but let me assure you, these 5 that I pass (and one I directly overlook) are taking NO visible measures at all. That is what I find particularly galling, when my dc and all their friends can't go back to school and do their mocks (never mind, be educated) and I see that the schools have literally bent over backwards to try and be as "covid-secure" as possible, yet the contractors involved in these sites cba to even arrive in masks. There is a site manager, the overall contractor, who sub-contracts out so I guess he is ultimately responsible. Guess you get irresponsible twats in all professions. I hope the 17y old's parents know that he's not following the guidelines.

I had some essential home maintenance word done during the first lockdown. One was a boiler check up and the other was some work on a problem with my security alarm. The latter was my two nephews who installed the system.

Next door were breaking the lockdown with visiting relations and their kids - not just coming for "caring" but a full family visit. One had the cheek to say "you shouldnt be there" to one of my nephews and got an earful back about minding his own bloody business. This was after we had politely warned them that we were going to test the system. So we tested it 8 times in an hour. That will teach them to wind their necks in when they are breaking the law themselves. Since then they kept their heads down and their mouths shut which is what neighbours should do anyway.

Obviously, I don’t know the specific circumstances, but then you don’t know what theirs are either. They might be family members. Perhaps much of the work is outside.

You’re probably quite fortunate if you haven’t had any tradespeople in your house during the last nine months. Boilers need to be services, electrics go wrong, drains get blocked; all kinds of things can happen that make it necessary for someone to come and put them right.

It sounds as though this is more about your resentment that people are still earning money as self employed folk. The furlough schemes don’t apply and trying to get financial support as a self employed person is like pulling teeth.

You realise there is no way to do construction work with masks on and 2 metres apart, not mixing households and not handling the same objects?

If you saw 20 people sat in a solicitor's building, using the same kettle, the same toilets and sharing a printer, would you be quite as snootily looking down on them? Or is it only filthy builders you want locked away, unable to make a living?

BTW I can't hear them as I am on Zoom all day with headphones on. I can see them shouting, coughing and spluttering and clapping each other on the back and sharing smokes all day though.

Many of our customers are tradesmen/manual workers etc. They know that of course they should be wearing masks, socially distancing, not sharing vans etc. However, From talking to them, they say they started out following the guidelines, back in the first lockdown, but they have now being working and mixing for 8 or 9 months and over time they become more relaxed about the rules as hardly any of them have caught Covid-19.

It's difficult to keep following procedures that make your job more difficult if you can't really see a reason to do so.

@Neron

I don't think they should be allowed to work.

Also plenty of other self employed people are prohibited from working, what makes construction different?
Exactly this. Why can someone have their cleaner in, or have extensions built and whatnot. Not essential.
I am a therapist, my clients are mainly those with cancer and the profoundly disabled. I also work with 2 medical clinics where work is referred to me as part of treatment or rehabilitation plans - yet I am not allowed to work. People in chronic pain, unable to go about their lives which are restricted. They are forced to try and use the NHS, putting more strain on it. I say try, because none of them are getting any help right now. I wear full PPE, I've done courses in infection control and whatnot, yet I'm legally not allowed to work right now. With zero income I am desperate. Where is the logic?

Why are you not allowed to work as surely you are classed as a key worker? Your role sounds really important and necessary to your patients so I can’t understand why you have been stopped. The legislation states that you should work from home if you can but otherwise go to work. My friend is a therapist and has worked throughout. Some of her work has been online admittedly but not all so she does see people every day.

However, just because you can’t work why should others not be allowed to? Not wanting to upset or annoy you, just asking the question. Trades don’t really get that close to others during their work whereas maybe you do, would that be why?

What do you imagine they would do for money if they couldn't go to work? How do you imagine they will keep their mortgages etc?

Ffs, mind your own.

The government are allowing construction workers to continue so stop moaning and focus on your own job.

@Littlewhitedove2

I have seen this many times. Builders going in and out with no masks or distancing. One person I know tested positive and her builders still came in every day! Those who are saying ‘oh they need to earn a living’ SO??? What about my friends who work in the wedding reception industry who haven’t been able to work since March?? What about the 6 people I know who work in entertainment who haven’t earned? What about the dozen or so people o know who run after school kids clubs and have only been able to run a few sessions for almost a year!!?? What about my daughters piano teacher who has been able to provide 5 weeks lessons since March??? Plenty of self employed people haven’t been able to work or have had to severely change the way they work this year. Why on Earth are builders so special?

Those in the wedding or entertainment industry or even after school clubs come into contact with hundreds of different people at any one time/ occasion/ day. No builder encounters this many people or need this many people altogether at the same time for them to work. Granted they will maybe be within 2m of each other whilst they work at times but it will be the same few people not differing mulitiple people each day. If tradespeople are in the house I usually find they are in and out of the property so there's plenty ventilation going through. When my DH goes looking at jobs he puts covers over his boots and wears a mask however he doesn't wear a mask whilst working as its physically demanding, although some parts of his work requires him to wear a construction mask due to dust.

Oh wind your neck in

@pinbinpin

We're in a T4 area, cases going up etc etc. Everyone is getting on with the boring restrictions, none of the neighbours appeared to have anyone round over xmas and NY etc.

My immediate neighbours are building an extension - 3 different vans/vehicles turned up today, each with 5/6 people in them, different contractors, no one wearing masks. All of them yelling at the tops of their voices all day and blowing smoke right underneath my office window. All of them using one portaloo.

I know people are allowed to work but shouldn't there be some restrictions on building work like everywhere else? Shouldn't they be taking some covid precautions? If I went into my office in London when we were in T3 I wasn't allowed in the building without a mask and hand sanitising. Same at all the GPs/hospitals I've visited over the period. Everyone had to sit apart with chairs/desks removed in between. Two of them are young builders mates, look about 17, it really doesn't seem like a "covid-safe" workplace for them. Are the rules really just "carry on as you were lads" for builders and tradespeople?

Why don't you just ask them?

We had this. Neighbours moved out of a London terrace near the start of the first lockdown telling us and others that they were landing 4-6 weeks rewriting and redecoration works.

Their belated planning application told a different story, requesting permission for major structural works.

Restrictions on construction working hours have been eased so it was seven days a week up to 8.00 pm in the evenings including Sunday.

The builders spoke no English so were probably unaware of safe working practices. And presumably could not afford to make a fuss.

There was relatively little supervision as the home owners spent most of their time at what we assume was a second home in Wales.

It was a nightmare, given people either side of them were trying to work/study from home.

Not much we could do though. And I assume they see neighbour unhappiness as a small price to pay. Lockdown with the ability to work from a distance and not having to travel or attend face to face meetings was a perfect time to gut and refurbish their home. It seems to have been a common problem round our way.

Nosy, jealous neighbour alert.

You sound like our nightmare neighbours who objected to our tiny side return extension OP (not done during lockdown, BTW). Too much time on your hands to be nosing away at your neighbours’ place. You’re also jealous of them, it’s as plain as day.

Earn a living!! Although I agree they should be wearing masks

My husband is self employed in the construction industry. So we should just stop working and starve? Loose our house? He mainly works by himself. He's extremely busy because he's reliable, does a proper days work, doesn't smoke or have tea breaks and is always on call. Boxing day had a call that a house he is responsible for maintenance work had a plumbing issue. He went and sorted out the problem. He's also working on a well known person's house in the middle of nowhere with minimum trades in. He has been very careful about the jobs he takes on but they still need doing. Locking down all construction/trades will not work. What happens if you need a plumber or electrician?

@HelloDaisy definitely not upsetting or annoying me, it is a good question. I don't harbour judgement on those working, I feel everyone should work if they have taken precautions. I am desperate to work. I don't think we should have great swathes of the population, namely the self employed, that are just left to fend for themselves. We shouldn't be plunged into tier 4 with only certain things open, if the spread is as bad as they say it is.

If I am classed as non essential, then having someone in to clean your house isn't essential either? If schools have been delayed in opening, then having a team of people in homes, where the occupants are WFH, to start unnecessary home upgrades, shouldn't happen until we move back out of tier 4.

Sadly I'm not classed as a key worker. Yes, I can work digitally, but none of my patients want that. The gov guidelines state no therapy, close contact work to shut. The legislation states work can commence if a medical, mental health, or other health reason. I was previously classed under other health, this time, in tier 4, it's been stopped. If I choose to work, I'm not covered by my insurance. I am financially in a lot of trouble and left to get on with it. I'm doing the right thing, but it's angering when I do everything to keep people safe, with zero covid positive cases, yet other people do what they like

We have water coming in through our roof which risks making the electrics unsafe. No choice but to approach someone to fix it. Our guys are wearing masks and avoiding each other as best they can but part of what needs done is on the roof and at times, they need to be physically close to one another to get the job done. Plus, as others have said, they need to earn.
I don’t know what the answer is to it all.

Alternative healthcare practitioners are not earning big money ergo not paying big tax, and ensuring adequate compliance supervision, PPE etc in a potentially vulnerable environment requires manpower.

Even a small building project is a high value transaction which requires lots of tax and VAT paid along every stage of the supply chain - if we’re to keep the NHS functioning we need the money.

@WingingItSince1973

My husband is self employed in the construction industry. So we should just stop working and starve? Loose our house? He mainly works by himself. He's extremely busy because he's reliable, does a proper days work, doesn't smoke or have tea breaks and is always on call. Boxing day had a call that a house he is responsible for maintenance work had a plumbing issue. He went and sorted out the problem. He's also working on a well known person's house in the middle of nowhere with minimum trades in. He has been very careful about the jobs he takes on but they still need doing. Locking down all construction/trades will not work. What happens if you need a plumber or electrician?

Presumably he follows the guidance and takes precautions so what's the problem? Gloves, masks, hand washing and social distancing and risks are greatly minimised. I presume he does all that for the safety of his customers, himself and the rest of your household??

The OP's point from what I understand is simple. Not querying "why" they are working, but "how". They definitely should be wearing masks and taking precautions, although I do appreciate that in certain situations during building work close contact is needed when four hands are necessary. I don't think she/he is saying they shouldn't be working !!

@pinbinpin

BTW I can't hear them as I am on Zoom all day with headphones on. I can see them shouting, coughing and spluttering and clapping each other on the back and sharing smokes all day though.

As you are on your zoom calls in warmth with your job, those peasant builders are carrying on outisde your window with their working class laddish behaviour.

You sound absolutley abhorent OP.

You know all the people telling OP it's nto her business are part of the problem? IT's everyones business when some people can't be fucked to even do the basics like wear masks.

@Neron

I don't think they should be allowed to work.

Also plenty of other self employed people are prohibited from working, what makes construction different?
Exactly this. Why can someone have their cleaner in, or have extensions built and whatnot. Not essential.
I am a therapist, my clients are mainly those with cancer and the profoundly disabled. I also work with 2 medical clinics where work is referred to me as part of treatment or rehabilitation plans - yet I am not allowed to work. People in chronic pain, unable to go about their lives which are restricted. They are forced to try and use the NHS, putting more strain on it. I say try, because none of them are getting any help right now. I wear full PPE, I've done courses in infection control and whatnot, yet I'm legally not allowed to work right now. With zero income I am desperate. Where is the logic?

Isn't the difference 1) close contact and 2) indoor/outdoor?

So a therapist would have close contact with different customers all day long and these would happen indoors, so high risk.
A builder will be outside (or in a semi-built room with ventilation) most of the time, he will interact only with his team most of the time. Lower risk.

I work in a Royal Mail delivery office , there’s about 60 of us crammed into a small building, there’s no social distancing, most don’t wear masks , we’ve had to work everyday throughout this and nobody really gives a shit , if we can work all the way through why can’t everyone one else. I would love to have had time off with 80% pay, people just order loads of crap anyway 😀👍