How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

@manicinsomniac

An awful lot of teachers have left the NEU over the Covid stance. They're just too militant and don't speak for the majority of their members.

My school is closed despite being in a tier 4, non closure area because the head thinks it's too risky. I am not in support of this but obviously have no choice. If my school was open, I certainly wouldn't support strike action. But I'm in NASUWT who aren't, I don't think, recommending that teachers not go in without headteacher support.

In a private school, I'd be very wary. Unions and striking don't go down well, generally.

This is not strike action. This is teachers standing up for themselves and not putting themselves in the Covid firing line.

@SoscaredforJan
I can’t help thinking that any teachers who go in and don’t show solidarity with the unions and fellow teachers shouldn’t expect the unions to ever help them again. This is by far the most important issue facing teachers ever! Greater than pay disputes etc. It is literally life and death
Unfortunately some staff work in schools with an ethos of fear of causing issues as you’re life will be made a living hell. I’m one of those - I questioned safety in March, it was not liked, I have had 9 months of absolute hell at work. It’s not as simple as it seems just to hand the letter in.

I've just had notification from one of my kids school that a significant number of staff don't feel safe returning and will get an update tomorrow, both schools have an inset day tomorrow. It's a total pain in the bum but I stand by teachers doing what they feel is right for them, I'll have to stay of work as haven't got the equipment to work from home although I've been pushing all year, my equipment is due for delivery mid Jan

@0gfhty

I think people underestimate the amount of workplaces that aren’t safe other than schools hospitals. It’s a shame there’s isn’t the same kind of attention given that teachers and schools receive. My husband works in a parcel depot, he works with about 20/30 (shift changes) colleagues closely in a poorly ventilated space, nobody wears a mask. It’s mostly unhealthy Men with zero union representation and precarious zero hour employment situation. All this stuff about companies making the workplace safe is absolute rubbish and anyway the measures they could take are negligible after doing a 10 hour shift together at close range. Just think about all the warehouses and workplaces like this in one town. There’s quite a lot. DPD, parcelforce, Royal Mail amazon etc. C The schools in California have been closed for months now but their numbers of coronavirus are massive too at the moment

Then they should also be writing to their employers or HSE about this. It isn't a race to the bottom or who has the worst working conditions. I would fully support them trying to improve their working conditions 100%. I hate the idea that one group of professionals can't improve their working conditions because someone else has it worse. What the fuck is that about?

[quote mumsneedwine]@RaffertyBear schools have, and always will be, open to Kew worker kids. And I fact schools have never closed, just moved to remote learning. Like most other countries on the world. [/quote]
But why are teachers happy to teach/look after key worker children and not non keyworker children? Surely they can catch Covid from a key worker child? Surely schools are no safer if they're open to lots of key worker children as some schools have a very large amount of children of keyworkers in? Or is the risk reduced significantly by non keyworker children not being in? I'm not trying to be goady, I'm genuinely curious as to why teachers feel so much safer with just keyworker children in school? Does anyone have a rough percentage of the reduction in numbers in their school by only having vulnerable and keyworker children in?

I agree that schools should be made safe for teachers and children and would support mask wearing for children of all ages etc.

@MrsHerculePoirot Actually No - as I already explained - the start of this thread it looked like all teachers were being advised to do the Section 44.

There was no mention that they would remain open for KW children at all.

So take your rudeness elsewhere. If you read, I have already thanked the poster who explained this to me, and how the section 44 is worded to protect KW kids staying in school.

Of course in secondaries most of us wouldn't get sacked because

1. many of us are employed by businesses not the government or DfE (academisation, independents etc)
2. head teachers are in charge of employing and dismissing staff and it is their unions who have started legal action against the DfE, not the NEU
3. head teachers are well aware of the enormous shortage of quality staff in certain subject areas so why on earth get rid of them over this when...
4. presumably there will be fewer teachers than ever after this academic year when they have either decided to leave the profession or sadly died.

I very much look forward to the threads in the future complaining that my child is being taught GCSE Maths by a PE teacher as the teacher shortage progresses.

No workplace is safe, agreed
So why is Boris saying that schools are safe? He repeatedly said it on the Andrew Marr show

I have absolutely no idea why he keeps saying this. I would really like to know his answer to the question, 'in what way are schools safe?'

Perhaps it's the lack of social distancing, the lack of mask wearing or the poor ventilation in many classrooms... 🤦‍♀️

@EYProvider

No workplace is ‘safe’ from an airborne virus. Everyone knows that. You do what you can to mitigate in line with the guidance, but viruses spread and that’s just common sense.

No workplace is ‘safe’, and if teachers do this, other professions will follow and the country will descend into chaos.

Except in schools no one is doing ANYTHING to mitigiate from an airborne virus other than hand sanitiser.

Teachers are asking for mitigations so that we CAN work. Not sure what is so hard to understand.

@Viviennemary

I think very few will resign. Will the unions back people who don't go in and face disciplinary action. Even if they do back them it's still a risk.

And I think you are wrong. According to my department WhatsApp we are all sending the letter in if secondary schools are in the same position. Personally I am in the fortune position of not having to work. Also my previous professional career paid 3x as much as teaching, and it won't take much to do a refresher course and get another job. I still have the contacts. I went into teaching because i wanted a worthwhile career to give back to society. I'm passionate about my subject and actually like being with young people. But the constant teacher bashing, vitriol and just general nastiness directed at teachers for things out of their control (blame the government) has just about finished me. I don't actually care if this costs me my job, because it won't make much difference to me, and I would have stood up to something I believe in.

@pennylane83

Genuinely curious, but seeing as though the argument of making schools safe has been rumbling on for the best part of a year, now that you have actually been back in the classroom and experienced the situation, what measures do you actually want the government to put in place in response to the walkout in order to make the space safe for you to return to and which doesn't rely on parents sacrificing their livelihoods to do blended learning (other than the need for more spacious buildings and more trained staff which really aren't helpful suggestions in dealing with the here and now).

NEU are asking for:

-Updated risk assessments WRT the new strain.
-Social distancing of 1m between pupils, rather than free mixing in bubbles.
-Mask wearing in class for all students.
-Priority for the vaccine (not above HCPs or the CV).
-until vaccinated, Clinically Extremely Vulnerable staff and women in the third trimester of pregnancy to work from home, supporting students who are at home.

So, hardly the earth.

I think a lot of teachers would be happy with just mask wearing.

@EnemyOfEducationNo1

I’ve followed the government guidance, same as everyone else.

No workplace will be prosecuted by HSE over covid-19. They would have to prosecute every business where someone caught it (so every business in the country then) and prove that it was the fault of the business owner.

For failing to prevent the transmission of an airborne virus? Don’t be ridiculous.

@greenbinday you really can't work this out?!?! If schools switch to remote learning and only KW and vulnerable students in then you have much fewer students in school and can run classrooms with social distancing taking place.... clearly MASSIVELY reducing their risk.

The section 44 is about teaching FULL CLASSROOMS.

@Tryingtokeepgoing

If they do, I hope that all customer facing supermarket and delivery staff do the same...they’re at as least as much, if not more, risk than teachers given that they’re exposed to more people, and there’s no record of who they’ve been exposed to. Perhaps that’d help them see who else is an essential worker!!

Sorry, but I don't know a single supermarket worker or delivery driver that spends up to an hour a day in close contact (within an enclosed classroom-sized space) with 6 classes of 30 teenagers - 900 kids per week?

Plus they have plastic partitions, social distance markings on check-outs, masks, visors, contact-free delivery etc, teachers have NOTHING in classrooms apart from the magic 2m box taped on the floor...

Anyone fancy a swap? Or to sign up for 'volunteering' to 'support' same teenagers to do the covid tests? Without notice, or training, or a fucking clue what the next bright idea will be and for it all to change overnight?

[quote RaffertyBear]@MrsHerculePoirot Actually No - as I already explained - the start of this thread it looked like all teachers were being advised to do the Section 44.

There was no mention that they would remain open for KW children at all.

So take your rudeness elsewhere. If you read, I have already thanked the poster who explained this to me, and how the section 44 is worded to protect KW kids staying in school.[/quote]
Right well maybe next time just ask what happens to KW children rather than a over dramatic "oh I'll just not go to work in intensive care then" ridiculous post.

@NeurologicallySpeaking

Of course in secondaries most of us wouldn't get sacked because 1) many of us are employed by businesses not the government or DfE (academisation, independents etc) 2) head teachers are in charge of employing and dismissing staff and it is their unions who have started legal action against the DfE, not the NEU 3) head teachers are well aware of the enormous shortage of quality staff in certain subject areas so why on earth get rid of them over this when... 4) presumably there will be fewer teachers than ever after this academic year when they have either decided to leave the profession or sadly died.

I very much look forward to the threads in the future complaining that my child is being taught GCSE Maths by a PE teacher as the teacher shortage progresses.

This. I am able to teach chemistry and physics to KS5, and also quite competent with KS3 maths. Oh and obviously KS3-4 science. Last time I changed schools I had 3, yes 3 wanting me as they had vacancies they had not been able to fill for over a year. It's not uncommon to have geography or PE teachers teaching science. Well done teacher bashers. You've got another science specialist to leave

This is all very sensible:

-Updated risk assessments WRT the new strain.
-Social distancing of 1m between pupils, rather than free mixing in bubbles.
-Mask wearing in class for all students.
-Priority for the vaccine (not above HCPs or the CV).
-until vaccinated, Clinically Extremely Vulnerable staff and women in the third trimester of pregnancy to work from home, supporting students who are at home.

(Although I don't agree with priority for the vaccine - well I do, but I think it should be offered to everyone who has to work in an environment with shit social distancing, not just teachers (so factory workers, supermarket workers, offshore workers, etc...)

The NASUWT have 300k members and don't seem to be advising members to hand in a S44 letter. This is the only email my DH has had -
Members who are feeling unsafe about return:
DO
• Ensure you follow the advice in this bulletin;
• raise your concerns with your line manager or Head Teacher and ask to speak with them;
• ask for an updated risk assessment for your school/college;
• contact NASUWT for direct advice and support at [email protected]k_** if the steps above do not resolve the issue.
DON’T
• Refuse to attend the workplace without advice from the NASUWT, if the steps above have not resolved your concerns the NASUWT will provide you with tailored advice about what to do next based on your circumstances.

[quote MrsHerculePoirot]**@greenbinday you really can't work this out?!?! If schools switch to remote learning and only KW and vulnerable students in then you have much fewer students in school and can run classrooms with social distancing taking place.... clearly MASSIVELY reducing their risk.

The section 44 is about teaching FULL CLASSROOMS.[/quote]
For example @greenbinday my school only has 5% of children in if we are keyworkers/vulnerable only. As some of those parents have a partner who isn't a key worker and so keep their children at home to keep them safe anyway.

[quote EYProvider]@EnemyOfEducationNo1

I’ve followed the government guidance, same as everyone else.

No workplace will be prosecuted by HSE over covid-19. They would have to prosecute every business where someone caught it (so every business in the country then) and prove that it was the fault of the business owner.

For failing to prevent the transmission of an airborne virus? Don’t be ridiculous.[/quote]
So explicitly what have you done? Because all we have in schools is hand sanitizer. For an airborne virus.
Now THAT is ridiculous

@MrsHerculePoirot I never said I worked in intensive care, calm down - and my question has been answered by a far nicer poster than yourself, thank you. Have a lovely day.

Sansa No, 2 of the 5 at my school have left. I know other teachers at other schools too but, as I don't know how many of their colleagues are in the NEU, I don't know what proportion of their own workforce they represent.

If the union says it has more members than before then I accept that. Maybe they joined in support of their covid policies. I know many who have left because they see them as too extreme. Horses for courses. Good job there is more than one union put there.

So explicitly what have you done? Because all we have in schools is hand sanitizer. For an airborne virus.
Now THAT is ridiculous

Aww now come on that's not entirely correct, we also have wet paper towels. 😂😂😂

@RaffertyBear

So, who looks after the front line workers kids then? Or are they expected to take time out of their intensive care shifts because their kids cannot go to school... just curious.

Apologies you didn't say you worked in intensive care yourself. Your post definitely isn't dramatic about those that do needing to take time off shifts off course.... oh no hold on...

Union reps in my secondary school banded together and produced a letter to request wfh (students aren't on site but we were being asked to go into the building)
The letter was sent to staff who repsonded if they wanted their name adding to signatories.
SLT and the executive principle met with trust leaders today and we have had an email saying we can choose to wfh if we want to.
The same letter said that CEV and CV staff should be offered the option to remote teach/work from next week when the exams years are back in.

Staffing of keyworker /vulnerable hubs will be done on a voluntary rota basis.