How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

Off the top of my head, compulsory mask wearing IN class with strict videos and guides on mask etticute and calls home if dc don't comply.

Students understanding of the virus is patchy, some do not understand that it spreads from people who may have it but don't show symptoms or before they do.

Dr van tam said '' we should all act like we have it '' the gov needs clear public info vida for different students ages rolled out to every single class.

Needs to have correct balance between scary enough and sensible.

Tests.. For those that submit sent to homes before students set foot, potentially positive in school also by passing the legality and gdp laws that is broken by doing it on site or expecting teachers to do it.

Keep isolating bubble groups with very strict info given on staying at home.

Ventilation must Happen.. Or give breaks every hour for the children to move and open windows and doors to clear the air.

Allow anything that makes teachers or dc warmer.

Perspex where possible...

Perhaps if no still high, blended learning, rota going in and out, thin out class sizes.

Deployments of professionals to spot check schools to make sure it's safe, at the moment we also are at the mercy of colleagues who some, think it's all nonsense..

Teachers who are worrying about being bullied out:

When there are so many vacancies, why isn’t it an employee’s market? Why aren’t HTs desperate to keep staff, instead of intimidating or edging them out for showing a spine? (Serious question - I have no teaching background and don’t know the politics)

What an absolute disgrace this whole Section 44 threat is. If everyone walked out of work because of Section 44 - doctors, nurses, shop workers, electricity supply workers, the list is endless - the whole country would come to a stop and then we would really know what a public health crisis was.

Section 44 of the Employment Rights Act is there to protect employees from detriment in employment if they refuse to work in a dangerous workplace. It’s been around way longer than this pandemic. It’s actually difficult to establish. You don’t really think it’s a good idea for law that protects workers from dangerous workplaces to be repealed?

Teachers carry on for the vulnerable kids. But they would be more spaced out.

@EYProvider

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well if all those people are truly working in unsafe conditions, then yes they should do. However other than those working in hospitals I'm pretty sure the other employers can show that their workplaces are 'safe' eg PPE, social distancing, ventilation etc... Schools cannot do that.

What a vile thing to say that you hope every teacher that does get sacked.

As a parent our school has nearly 600 cases, I'd be willing to post support for our teaches if they wanted to hand it in but I'm not going too because I'm keeping dd off and say she's generally unwell to avoid the fear of fines!!

@MellowYellow101

Out of curiosity, what would it mean for the vulnerable children and keyworker children if all schools closed again & teachers refuse to go in?

I doubt this would happen. We were able to keep our keyworker provision throughout last time. Enough teachers volunteered and then we could put the children in our hugest spaces with proper distancing as so few of them compared to normal.

There was provision in lockdown 1 for pooling between schools if any school couldn't staff key worker provision.

Posting my support would show my hand and I bet the usual parent brown nosers post something about supporting the teachers who have worked hard to make it safe by sending theirs in 😂😂

All children in special schools have EHCPs and so come under the vulnerable category.

Teachers have a choice to be brave or be complicit in the government's actions, which will kill people.

From the responses on here I would say 30-35% of teachers are likely to hand in the letter.

It's only a pressing issue for primary at the moment. Secondary staff will be keeping an eye on what happens ready for next week when Y11 and 13 are supposed to be back in.

Of course secondary teachers have the testing farce to contend with too.

@BatteredHake you realise there are many teachers who DO have underlying conditions that make them vulnerable to covid right? This is the problem!

In my (tier 4 but open) school alone I have:

• a colleague in his late 50s who has had a heart attack and surgery
• a colleague with fairly severe asthma that is ever so slightly off shielding (he is male and in his 60s too)
• a type 1 diabetic
• a colleague with an arrhythmia
• an epileptic
• at least 3 who are severely overweight and over 50.
• a colleague who has damaged lungs from breast cancer treatment
• 2 pregnant colleagues

Those are just the ones I know about and not even including moderate asthma sufferers.

Tell me how these are not vulnerable people with a right to any kind of mitigation in their workplace? The shielding list is very limited and up to tier 3 they are expected in too!
This is the problem, not the 30 year old teachers with no underlying conditions. We have NOT shielded the vulnerable at all. And the 'oh but they had underlying conditions' response to the death figures is therefore not helpful.

As usual we need the well-paid comfortable middle classes at the tops to shoulder the responsibilities of their position and not force low paid staff into environments that will damage their health and lives.

I’ve been waiting for that to happen for 30 years.

We need change.

Thank you for this - the way it was coming across upthread is that teachers (all) were being advised not to go in...

NEU has advised staff to go in to supervise KW children as the classes will be smaller. It’s not a refusal to work

*Well if all those people are truly working in unsafe conditions, then yes they should do. However other than those working in hospitals I'm pretty sure the other employers can show that their workplaces are 'safe' eg PPE, social distancing, ventilation etc... Schools cannot do that.

What a vile thing to say that you hope every teacher that does get sacked.*

Yes this. Other workplaces should be able to demonstrate risk assessments and that they have complied with “Covid secure” guidelines.

And sacking teachers for exercising their rights under s44 would be an automatically unfair dismissal under s100 of the employment rights act. No HR person with half a brain would advise that was OK!

I think people underestimate the amount of workplaces that aren’t safe other than schools hospitals. It’s a shame there’s isn’t the same kind of attention given that teachers and schools receive. My husband works in a parcel depot, he works with about 20/30 (shift changes) colleagues closely in a poorly ventilated space, nobody wears a mask. It’s mostly unhealthy Men with zero union representation and precarious zero hour employment situation. All this stuff about companies making the workplace safe is absolute rubbish and anyway the measures they could take are negligible after doing a 10 hour shift together at close range. Just think about all the warehouses and workplaces like this in one town. There’s quite a lot. DPD, parcelforce, Royal Mail amazon etc. C The schools in California have been closed for months now but their numbers of coronavirus are massive too at the moment

@Jenasaurus

From the responses on here I would say 30-35% of teachers are likely to hand in the letter. Having said that the people that post on here are the ones who feel strongly either way so may not be a true representation of the outcome.

Why not start a thread with voting enabled asking only Teachers and TAs to respond, that will give you a better idea.

FWIW - I would send the letter if I was in the teaching profession

For some reason I can’t make a thread with voting If someone would like to do this then feel free.

@noblegiraffe

From the responses on here I would say 30-35% of teachers are likely to hand in the letter.

It's only a pressing issue for primary at the moment. Secondary staff will be keeping an eye on what happens ready for next week when Y11 and 13 are supposed to be back in.

Of course secondary teachers have the testing farce to contend with too.

Only primary teachers outside London too.

*OverTheRainbowLiesOz

I regard it as government mandated manslaughter.

This is a disgusting comment.*

No it is an accurate comment. The government's refusal to shut schools in the light of this new strain and the pressure on the NHS has caused many deaths and will cause many more. It is manslaughter

I am, and from what I can tell pretty much all the teachers and TAs in my department are. Not sure about other departments.

Poor form to go against a union directive. Have to stand solidly for union to work effectively.

The NASUWT are not advising teachers to use Section 44. They have written to the government expressing their concerns but they are telling teachers not to refuse to go in without contacting the union first and receiving tailored advice from them.

I only work part time but am 65 with asthma but as things are I will be in next week.

@mumsneedwine do you mind me asking what job you will be doing instead? I’ve worked in primary schools for the last 14 years providing consultancy, educational programmes and behaviour advice for children with developmental disabilities and I’m wondering what jobs I might have transferable skill sets in (after I’ve been on and finished maternity leave). I’m closing my business down. Thanks 😊

Primary, special and AP, not just primary. Secondary APs are expected to be fully open, plus testing.

Every single one of them I hope.

Forcing schools to stay open before Christmas and now is criminally reckless.

I know so many teachers and pupils who caught covid in the last few days of school.

@DayBath

Are TAs in the same unions as teachers? Hopefully they are being supported if they don't want to go in.

The TAs I know are in the same unions as the teachers, yes. I don't know any who are in Unison.