How many teachers will be handing in the section 44 letter tomorrow and not going in?

[SoscaredforJan]

My DSis is scared to go to work tomorrow in a private primary school in Tier 3 but lowish numbers. She is not ECV but has got chemo damaged lungs so it petrified of catching Covid.

She desperately wants to follow union advice and not go in tomorrow but she’s worried that most teachers will be in as normal, she will have a black Mark against her and will be quietly pushed out.

Are there many teachers on here planning not to go in tomorrow? What do you think will happen tomorrow?

Would all those teachers who are calling for schools to stay shut take the vaccine if offered? Genuine question, not intended to be the least bit goady.
Just wondering what the proposed exit strategy is? In terms of advocating for teachers, think it would be an easier and very reasonable request/red line to state that all staff teaching F2F must have the vaccine and be given the option of medical grade PPE

Of course they would! I bet the proportion of teachers planning to refuse the vaccine is much lower than the proportion of the population as a whole.

It can't happen though, unfortunately. They've got to use the vaccine we have to bring the pressure on the hospitals down. The only way to do that is to vaccinate in priority order of those most likely to get very sick or die and those who work in healthcare so they don't go off work sick. The only way schools would have any noticeable effect of hospital numbers is if they priority vaccinated all adults who work in schools and all adults who live with school aged children. Which is obviously unworkable straightaway. Given that older and vulnerable teachers are already in the priority order, just vaccinating the rest of the youngish and healthyish school staff would have a negligible effect on hospital numbers. I think it would be sensible to move vulnerable teachers over 50 up the order (I think they are 6 and 9 at the moment so making them 2 or 3 could really benefit schools in the short term). But not the rest of us. We're likely to get sick, which sucks. Which very unlikely to need hospital resources and that's what the vaccine order has to be based on.

I’ve just messaged my sons y6 teacher, she said they are ready and waiting for them after the inset day on Tuesday.

I’m in Peterborough - one of the original tier 4 areas.

@Beepbeepa

Would all those teachers who are calling for schools to stay shut take the vaccine if offered? Genuine question, not intended to be the least bit goady. Just wondering what the proposed exit strategy is? In terms of advocating for teachers, think it would be an easier and very reasonable request/red line to state that all staff teaching F2F must have the vaccine and be given the option of medical grade PPE.

The exit strategy is mask wearing and social distancing in schools plus having more data on the new strain.

I would only take the vaccine if I was sure I could have two doses of the same type (don't care which one) as if it were mix and match I would doubt its efficacy.

@Confusedlady246 many have handed in notice already. I hope those who feel at risk follow suit and find themselves safe jobs with employers that care and are respected.

@Confusedlady246

So who has said it’s riskier than being a doctor? I can’t find anyone, you really are very confused indeed 🤦‍♀️.

Also, you cannot be a doctor from home. You can teach remotely from home. It’s not perfect, but we want testing sorted before we return. Like you currently have access too, you know being a carer and all that jazz. (Twice weekly, and rightly so).

I have many nurses in my family and they are agreeing with the section 44

It's very easy for public sector workers to play fast and loose with other people's education when they'll still get paid. I doubt my private school teachers agree with them because no teaching = no fees = no money to pay teachers.

Try working in the private sector and you'll see that the rest of us have to crack on with our responsibilities without complaining all the time. I've never heard any of my team moan. We just get on with it and do overtime to help out. You have the luxury of unconditional employment right now, with loads of time off, and all you do is whinge. I am so infuriated with the teaching profession right now. We are in a global pandemic and our children's futures and mental health are impacted and teachers want more time at home.

@MarieG10

If your school starts docking pay for a44 they will be asking for trouble and I hope that's just what they get.

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?

Multiple employment tribunals would be pretty tricky to deal with for a school, I reckon.

Also, I find your attitude towards shop workers disgusting- I definitely wouldn't laugh at a shop worker who felt their working environment was unsafe.

@ilovesooty

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?*
I hope they will face legal action. What you say is going to happen is illegal.*

Do you have a reference for that? the member would have prove in court that the refusal to work under section 44 was justified and therefore they were not on strike or unauthorised leave.

Frankly it is easy for militant trade union leaders to belch out this sort of stuff

@Confusedlady246

When you have people arguing that teachers are more at risk of covid than doctors and nurses treating covid patients, then you're fighting a losing battle.

All this thread does is strengthen the entitled teacher argument.

As all these teachers are scared for their life, as emphasised here, I imagine everyone will be handing in their resignation tomorrow and getting one of the 'safe' jobs?

Strangely the only people saying that are people like you.

What we are saying is that schools can be and should be made safer.

But then for some posters its all about the race to the bottom and making shit up.

[quote SeldomFollowedIt]@Confusedlady246

So who has said it’s riskier than being a doctor? I can’t find anyone, you really are very confused indeed 🤦‍♀️.

Also, you cannot be a doctor from home. You can teach remotely from home. It’s not perfect, but we want testing sorted before we return. Like you currently have access too, you know being a carer and all that jazz. (Twice weekly, and rightly so).[/quote]
There are several posts in which people infer it's safer to be a teacher.

Please stop commenting on my username. The fact that the (no doubt teachers) people on this post keep attempting to use my username as some form of insult is just pathetic. You're not 13 years old.

[quote MarieG10]@ilovesooty

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?*
I hope they will face legal action. What you say is going to happen is illegal.*

Do you have a reference for that? the member would have prove in court that the refusal to work under section 44 was justified and therefore they were not on strike or unauthorised leave.

Frankly it is easy for militant trade union leaders to belch out this sort of stuff [/quote]
Its not a refusal to work, it is a refusal to work in an unsafe environment Where it would be possible to work at home under the current tiering system set by the government.

@TwentyTwentyOne

Ahh you’ve never heard any of your team moan?

They probably don’t do it to your face 😉.

@Beepbeepa

Would all those teachers who are calling for schools to stay shut take the vaccine if offered? Genuine question, not intended to be the least bit goady. Just wondering what the proposed exit strategy is? In terms of advocating for teachers, think it would be an easier and very reasonable request/red line to state that all staff teaching F2F must have the vaccine and be given the option of medical grade PPE.

Yes. Oh god yes. Stab me with the vaccine. I want the daily school normality back. I want huge assemblies full of children singing their hearts out and Christmas productions with masses of applause. I want amazing educational visits and exciting visitors coming into school. I want mess and noise and group work. I want all the fantastic parts of the learning back, instead of this dried-out curriculum that has to adhere to covid safety measures. I want to shut windows if the kids are cold. I want to high-five that kid who finally nails their seven times table. And above all, I want to do my job safely.

@TwentyTwentyOne

I have many nurses in my family and they are agreeing with the section 44

It's very easy for public sector workers to play fast and loose with other people's education when they'll still get paid. I doubt my private school teachers agree with them because no teaching = no fees = no money to pay teachers.

Try working in the private sector and you'll see that the rest of us have to crack on with our responsibilities without complaining all the time. I've never heard any of my team moan. We just get on with it and do overtime to help out. You have the luxury of unconditional employment right now, with loads of time off, and all you do is whinge. I am so infuriated with the teaching profession right now. We are in a global pandemic and our children's futures and mental health are impacted and teachers want more time at home.

I might be misreading your post, but are you bragging about how few rights you have as an employee? Because that is an odd stance to take...

I'm not sure what you mean by "unconditional employment" either.

Seldom
I'm not their boss so I would hear it. They are heads down, let's crack on and get through it.

@Confusedlady246

If you’re saying posters have said it is “safer” to be a teacher, then what the hell are you actually on about?

It kinda hard not to use your username when you clearly are confused.

You have the luxury of unconditional employment right now

So misguided and untrue.
I've just completed the redundancy process for 10 staff in one school. Jobs ended 31.12.20, due to the deficit budget in the school.

[quote MarieG10]@ilovesooty

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?*
I hope they will face legal action. What you say is going to happen is illegal.*

Do you have a reference for that? the member would have prove in court that the refusal to work under section 44 was justified and therefore they were not on strike or unauthorised leave.

Frankly it is easy for militant trade union leaders to belch out this sort of stuff [/quote]
They are not refusing to work.

And when you say "our school" are you a member of the management team? Or a governor? If not, how do you know what the intentions are?

[quote MarieG10]@ilovesooty

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?*
I hope they will face legal action. What you say is going to happen is illegal.*

Do you have a reference for that? the member would have prove in court that the refusal to work under section 44 was justified and therefore they were not on strike or unauthorised leave.

Frankly it is easy for militant trade union leaders to belch out this sort of stuff [/quote]
I just read elsewhere that a court hearing was happening tomorrow. No idea if it’s right but it could be on this if so.

[quote MarieG10]@ilovesooty

What do you suggest...go on strike in protest?*
I hope they will face legal action. What you say is going to happen is illegal.*

Do you have a reference for that? the member would have prove in court that the refusal to work under section 44 was justified and therefore they were not on strike or unauthorised leave.

Frankly it is easy for militant trade union leaders to belch out this sort of stuff [/quote]
The NEU believe the opposite, that schools would have to prove they are safe.

Interestingly, the NAHT have specifically advised their members NOT to say that schools are safe to staff as it could open them up to personal liability.

The NAHT are also taking legal action against the DfE. They want to see the evidence for themselves that schools are safe.

I’m not a teacher, but I wanted to say that I support everyone who ha ds in their section 44 tomorrow.

Even though the risk to children is minimal the risk to teachers and staff is massive. Children don’t get really ill with it but they do spread it, and teachers and school staff are the only people being expected to work face to face with others with no PPE and no social distancing.

This government have shown a complete disregard for the safety of teachers, and every working person in this country should be supporting the unions in putting teachers’ safety first.

Most teachers and NHS jobs are far safer in general than the private sector.

*Pops onto thread. Reads posts like:

I am so infuriated with the teaching profession right now. We are in a global pandemic and our children's futures and mental health are impacted and teachers want more time at home.

Sighs to self and promptly shuts thread down.

Sansa have the unions outlined definition of safe?

@MarshaBradyo AFIAK the court hearing tomorrow is the NAHT vs DfE, asking for evidence that schools are safe to open, I believe.

If the DfE can prove that schools are safe, then I guess that the S44 has less legal standing, but I would be amazed if they can!