Do you think tier 5 (if it happens) will still include childcare/support bubbles?

[Swearlikemalcolmtucker]

Just been reading about the possibility of tighter restrictions and was wondering what people thought the likelihood of bubbles still being allowed was?
I know nobody actually knows, was just wondering - I was trying to think how much stricter it could get aside from closing schools and playgrounds and places of worship again, and bubbles were the only other thing I could think of

There is no way that I think they will do away with support bubbles so I would try not to worry about it.

“Actually under the bubble rules the granny couldn't be in both a single person support bubble and a baby under one bubble. They are both classed as support bubbles and you can only be in one support bubble. People really need to follow the bubble rules, bubbles as defined by the rules are essential and need to stay, but people not following it properly could ruin it for everyone.“

Interesting. I stand corrected and am glad the rules are more sensible than I thought - I admit I took someone’s word for it (who is in numerous bubbles) rather than checking since it doesn’t directly apply to me. As you say, I hope they remain for those who need them.

The rules behind bubbles are well considered and are there to support those who need it. Childcare and emotional/physical support are all needed things. The problem with a bubble is when the rules aren’t followed. A major source of unesscesqary mixing is childcare bubbles formed with grandparents where the adults then mix inside. I know many people who generally think they are rule following, but then are mixing with the grandparents because ‘it’s alright, they are in a a childcare bubble’. (This was also an excuse used at Christmas). Well no, it’s not alright. No where it the rules does it say you can have coffee or lunch with granny and grandad. Abuse of rules makes it tougher for all those who rightly need and use the bubbles for their purpose.

But @beckypv how can you have childcare bubble without mixing inside? I work upstairs or in the conservatory as I’m working from home and mum watches DS downstairs.
Is she supposed to watch him in the garden? Or take him back to hers where he will then be mixing with my brother and my dad as well and then coming back? I understand people abusing it but it’s a bit silly to suggest you can mix inside at all with a childcare bubble

And if I make myself a coffee while at work, I’m not allowed to offer my mum one? Or come in if she has a question about something going on with DS? As much as people are behind the rules, others seem to be making up additional caveats to the rules just so they can feel superior to others it seems

"
I don’t see how they can get rid of bubbles. All the people who live alone but require care from family (my gran is one) will suddenly need far more state help, and if/when they don’t get it,"
You were always allowed to provide care. Right from the very start of the march lockdown.

I’d have thought, unless you are handing a baby over to the carer, or you live in a studio flat you can manage not to mix when in a childcare bubble. Surely every effort should he made for the adults not to be in the same room. Questions could be done by phone, cups of tea could be made independently. There is normally a way to get around mixing. It may seem awkward or rude or hard work...... but it’s often a choice people can make the effort to do ...... (or not)

I guess both using a mask if help is needed with the child would also be a good option

It’s not a requirement though, a mask in a childcare bubble. We don’t socialise, but we can’t avoid seeing each other entirely.

Swearlikemalcomtucker I totally understand what your saying. Passing contacts are going to be unavoidable. I think it’s really the Christmas and weekend socialising in childcare bubbles that is what I am irritated with, and the fact that they detract from the importance of bubbles for so many.

I get where you’re coming from too @beckypv because I know people who are using it just to have both grandparents over for the day with no childcare taking place at all. It’s essentially a support or socialisation bubble but they’re not eligible for one so use the childcare bubble instead.
I’ve also seen people use it with friends and they all get together at the same time such as NYE as a ‘childcare’ bubble so I appreciate what you’re saying.
Sorry if I’m a bit defensive, I’ve been trying so hard to follow the rules and I get upset when people say support bubbles etc shouldn’t be allowed as I suffered PND and having that support was such a life saver for me. But there do seem to be an awful lot of rule benders.

Nurseries and childminders are still open.

Surely they’d close those before looking at bubbles..

they could actually make a substantial difference by paying people properly to isolate, paying people to get tested and provide proper isolation facilities for those in crowded homes.

100% this.

Actually I'd allow everyone a support bubble of one other household. I think you'd get more compliance overall if people were allowed that.

I don't think they will get rid of support bubbles.

I do think they should tighten them up.

A childcare bubble should be used only when parents can't work from home. Not to be used at weekend just because parents "need a break" (I know someone who has done this several times)

As someone who works in parental mental health I do not think they should tighten up childcare bubbles, particularly with schools closed.

If you removed childcare bubbles and close childcare provision you would be encouraging parents to try to work from home while looking after young children. That's cruel and dangerous. A toddler died in the first lockdown because her mother was on a work call and didn't notice her crawl out of the door and drown in a pool.

I had a baby one week into the first lockdown. I went through the first few weeks without seeing my family, ended up on the brink of PND and exhausted trying to look after a newborn while recovering from the birth. There was no support from midwives, health visitors or my GP at all. I gave up on the rules at that point and went to stay with my mum and I am so glad I did. I figured that if the state had completely given up on me then I would give up on rules which prevented me getting any support. I honestly don't know where I would be if I hadn't. I am really glad that they finally introduced under 1 support bubbles so that other new mums don't have to look after a new baby without support. It is a new low to have people on a parenting site try to remove support from new mums.

I agree that every family should be able to bubble up with another though as there are lots of reasons that a family might need support / opportunities to socialise with another household outside of the current bubble rules. (I actually don't agree with rules which prevent people seeing family for months at a time anyway but that's for another thread).

Surely you could tighten up bubbles, without removing them, by introducing some system to register support bubbles and childcare bubbles. The issues are arising where people not entitled to bubbles are using them or where people are being part of multiple bubbles. It wouldn't stop anyone legitimately entitled to them and using them within the rules, but it would stop the situation where someone claims a different household is their support bubble every day of the week.

introducing some system to register support bubbles and childcare bubbles.

Who do you think is going to police that?

I personally thi k support bubbles are so. Important... I also think back in march we should all have been allowed one other household as a bubble... It would have stopped so many people just meeting many different households. It would also have been a huge help for childcare etc

It surprises me how readily people want so many aspects of their (now very limited) lives policed. A register for childcare bubbles? And support bubbles?
I think as soon as you start doing that kind of thing you’re heading down quite a dangerous path.

Bubbles is definitely being abused but at the same time people desperately need them.
It would be inhumane to stop single person bubbles, and to be honest there has to be an overlap between single person and vulnerability. Not all single people are vulnerable in a MH aspect but many are.

The other way round the single person issue is for them to temporarily move in with another household. But not everyone has space to house an extra person long term. And that could cause other issues being together 24/7.