Am I missing the point here...

[kookykins]

I'm going to try and make this as measured as I can and try not to make it come across like a torrent of frustration.

Why is it that teachers are getting to say when schools go back? Why does it feel like teachers are constantly complaining about the virus? No one is an ideal situation right now so why does it feel like they are being allowed to 'opt out' of their careers now times are tough.

I work in a busy NHS hospital and It honestly sickens and saddens me that there are men and women, many parents relying on schools to open, relying on their children's education being properly resumed next week they are giving life saving treatment in dire situations every day. I haven't heard them complaining about having to come in and save lives work extra hours and a lot on low pay.

Teachers to an extent have chosen a career to support teach and mentor our children I feel when the going has got touch (very tough fair enough) they are opting out...however many of these teachers will expect ITU nurses to treat someone in their family who happens to get ill with this virus. How can this be? How is this ok?

I have friends who are teachers who don't feel like this and who want to get back to work but are very much being pulled along by the union so I don't want to paint all teachers with the same brush...

What happens to the children who need to go back to school, who need that hot meal that support that escape? Do they not matter?

Surely the children of this country are a higher priority right now?
Teachers and unions are being given insane amounts of power right now and I don't understand it. If we are all meant to 'be in it together' then why aren't we all cracking on like the next person and getting on with our jobs because we realise the impact if we don't...

Rant over...

they are given an option by their unions to not go into their workplace

No, the relevant H&S legislation applies to all workplaces.

Op, aren't you concerned that if schools remain open cases will skyrocket, making your very stressful job even harder for you and your colleagues?

...so yes, to answer your question, I do think you are missing the point.

If schools are deemed as "unsafe working environments" due to covid risk to staff then this could set a precedent for other industries. Amazon packing warehouses, factories, production outlets, industrial warehouses, to name a few that have been operating throughout the pandemic. I agree to an extent with Op; why is teaching deemed more unsafe than other industries?

I keep seeing posts about teachers "falling like flies" to covid. This means there are staff testing positive and having to isolate, rather than death rates so I think it's a sensational statement.

I don't disagree that schools in tier 4 should close to prevent transmission to the wider community. If mass testing in schools can be implemented successfully than this should be the risk limitation tool we should be using in all workplaces.

None of my kids teachers have moaned once. Both my kids got covid mid December and all of their teachers have been emailing me personally to check on us and the girls, they’ve even offered to get anything we need and drop it off. They’ve been absolutely incredible and tbh it’s helped get us through this!
The teachers have signed up to teach our kids, not put themselves at the forefront of a pandemic, in which unlike you they have no PPE and an unlimited amount of time in an enclosed space with 30+ patients/students.
It sounds to me that you’re perhaps unhappy in your job? I’m sure you’re qualified to work elsewhere if this is the case, your message just sounds a bit bitter.

@SmileyClare

If schools are deemed as "unsafe working environments" due to covid risk to staff then this could set a precedent for other industries. Amazon packing warehouses, factories, production outlets, industrial warehouses, to name a few that have been operating throughout the pandemic. I agree to an extent with Op; why is teaching deemed more unsafe than other industries?

I keep seeing posts about teachers "falling like flies" to covid. This means there are staff testing positive and having to isolate, rather than death rates so I think it's a sensational statement.

I don't disagree that schools in tier 4 should close to prevent transmission to the wider community. If mass testing in schools can be implemented successfully than this should be the risk limitation tool we should be using in all workplaces.

Dont worry, With brexit the tories will see it fit to take away all the rights of employees.

@kookykins I get what you are saying but the reality is it’s extremely hard to nurse via Microsoft teams but you can teach (albeit with great difficulty)

Again many colleagues unwell or isolating with covid. It’s an absolute nightmare.

I think the point is work remotely where you can. And in this instance teaching via teams can happen. Nursing can’t. Gps are managing to treat and triage lots of cases via the phone. It’s a similar principle.

When teachers are talking about schools being closed they actually mean closed for some. The schools were always open for key worker and vulnerable children and would be again.

During the first lockdown hospitals were not busy, I had to fight to get my arm x rayed in a department which (when I got there) had one other person in. When I left there was no one and staff sat around twiddling their thumbs. At this same point I was in school with no PPE and no social distancing teaching vulnerable children.

OP @kookykins get your facts right!

Schools are not safe. Teaching Unions are just trying to protect their staff and look after the long term well being of children (clue: this requires retention of living, healthy staff within the profession).

There was not enough PPE at the beginning of the pandemic. The public were horrified on behalf of NHS staff and tried to help; sewing groups stitching scrubs, school science labs donating goggles, engineering firms making shields. It was awful for NHS staff, but people cared and something was done about it.

In September school staff were told that schools were 'Covid safe' and children wouldn't spread it. They were not allowed to wear PPE nor ask children to wear it. They were not allowed to ask parents for proof of a -ve Covid test after a child had symptoms.

As far as I know, NHS staff have had reliable PPE for some time and are being prioritised for the vaccine. Patients are screened for Covid and staff have regular tests.

Turns out that schools aren't 'Covid secure' after all. It's been spreading like wildfire in many, many schools and staff are being exposed everyday. They still have no PPE, no regular tests, no knowledge of whether any of the hundreds of children they share a confined space with have covid and they're not being prioritised for vaccination.

And people on this thread think their whinging. Christ.

Dont worry, with brexit the Tories will see fit to take away all the rights of employees [hollow laugh] yes absolutely.

[quote Whatelsecouldibecalled]@kookykins I get what you are saying but the reality is it’s extremely hard to nurse via Microsoft teams but you can teach (albeit with great difficulty)

Again many colleagues unwell or isolating with covid. It’s an absolute nightmare.

I think the point is work remotely where you can. And in this instance teaching via teams can happen. Nursing can’t. Gps are managing to treat and triage lots of cases via the phone. It’s a similar principle.[/quote]
If only all schools were teaching via Teams though, as yet again many are still doing any live lessons

It seems that a lot of people want schools to stay open, not because schools educate their kids, but because they are able to work while schools are looking after their kids.

Schools absolutely should be closing. Employers should absolutely be understanding of this, and people should absolutely understand the reason why they have to close.

The OP is seriously missing the point. There is not one single child in this country who lives in isolation. The more they interact, the more this thing spreads, the more people get infected, the more NHS has to make the decision who to turn away and who to treat.

Covid is now out of control in this country. And it is going to get worse before it gets better. And it won’t get better for a while yet.

Two-three weeks of schools being shut could buy us two-three months of time, while the vaccine is rolled out.

Everybody is suffering. The more we accept that we all will suffer, and act accordingly, the sooner we may well get out of this situation.

It's not that great for NHS workers either trust me, many hospital departments are not Covid safe at all but don't see much reporting on that. I guess if you were on the wards and maybe if I was in a school then we would both see neither is actually safe.

I agree teachers need to be prioritised for the vaccine and PPE I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Why is it that teachers are getting to say when schools go back

Actually it is local authorities that are making these decisions and petitioning central government explaining they cannot operate safely. Brighton & Hove Council has notified all primary schools to operate remote learning from Monday. I suspect many other councils will follow.

To answer your question - yes, you are missing the point.

This is rather a rude post, considering you work in the NHS I would of thought you would have more understanding and compassion.
Very presumptuous off you to say why should teachers decide, and really rude of you to assume teachers dont want to work through this, of course they do, they love their jobs as I'm sure you do, but it is a fact that it isn't safe for them or the children, therefore shutting will be protecting the children and all their families, you as an nhs worker should be grateful as there should be less pressure on the nhs.

@ofgavin agree some provision has been poor. Other excellent.

Nurse here (working on a resp ward full of covid +ve patients, many on cpap). I think that anything that can slow the spread and keep things safe for the community is only a good thing. OP, even if the schools are closed, keyworker and vulnerable children are still able to attend. That was the case back in the spring too.

I’ve been appalled that school staff haven’t been allowed to wear ppe, and that they’re not higher up in the priority list for the vaccination. I certainly wouldn’t risk my health by not wearing correct ppe at work (so am shocked that teachers and school staff are expected to). I really think that they’ve been given a raw deal here: sure they chose to go into teaching. I chose to go into nursing...nurses have the right to have a safe working environment. Surely teachers do as well?!

If schools are deemed as "unsafe working environments" due to covid risk to staff then this could set a precedent for other industries. Amazon packing warehouses, factories, production outlets, industrial warehouses, to name a few that have been operating throughout the pandemic

I would hope it does. Worth you finding out what the actual working conditions are in the places, instead of implying they're soldiering on, unprotected.

Someone on another thread (can't remember now, there have been so many teacher-bashing ones it's hard to keep up) said their 6th form students working in an Amazon warehouse said that the covid safety interventions were good and they could now see their school was unsafe.

but NHS staff are being prioritised for the vaccine this is to protect vulnerable patients and to prevent huge staff absences which is having a catastrophic impact on patient care.

I don't think teachers will be moved to high priority on the vaccination programme. The priority is always going to be the sections of society at highest risk of death from covid.

(although vaccinating teachers would benefit society greatly if they are not willing to work in the present climate).

You're going to get roasted. I agree with you, OP.

@Ladydowntheroad that's really lovely that they checked in with you. Obviously my post has not really presented what I wanted it too, I'm not making teachers into villains but I am utterly fed up with some of these so called facts about teachers vs nhs staff that we are meant to get on with it but no teachers simply can't do the same.

My expectation is my child will be educated (in a safe environment 100%) I'm sure the public expectation of nurses is they will treat their patients whatever happens in any circumstances and put that patient first - that's what we are doing in awful circumstances atm.

It doesn't look like teachers/ unions are sticking to their end of the bargain right now.

When you have to get up for work everyday save lives, exhaustion setting in, constantly scared for your life and what you may bring home to your family, sad for colleagues etc and on top not even knowing if your children will in fact be in school next week.

Just FYI I may not be able to send my child in to school, so therefore won't be at work next week as we are a one key worker family DH is not...
My department will be one person down which is not a good outcome for anyone.

Thank you for your ridiculous comment I love my job just as much as the next teacher

@kookykins

I am nhs too and I agree with you.

Many of my friends are teachers and to be honest most of them want to stay open.

I do think the unions have way too much power but that may be because we historically never strike despite the amount of rubbish we have had to put up with in the past.

I do think the government should have predicted this though, and put measures in place for the week before schools closed and the first 2 weeks back. Or cancelled Christmas altogether and banned travel.

It’s like the unions think education is not important, whereas to me it’s as vital as healthcare, and not possible at home especially for primary age, with working parents.

Putting aside teachers and pupils specifically - it now looks like it will be impossible to shrink this pandemic (get R < 1) with the new variant and schools open.

@kookykins

But we can't just decide to leave or that actually it's too dangerous to work (talking from an nhs workers perspective here)

If you look at other jobs that are high risk you will find they can make various changes and minimise their risk of exposure to a certain extent. GPs are doing the majority of work over the phone/video calls. Dentists are shut or only dealing with emergency cases. Some are open and have taken steps to reduce their risks. Supermarkets have increased online shopping to protect their staff. With teachers there is also a chance to reduce their risk and one of those methods is to work from home. It’s not impossible in some schools. Not all parents have no childcare, for example I work full time and DH works full time, but currently works from home so he watches the kids when they are off school isolating for 2 weeks at a time. When he wasn’t working from home he has flexible hours to make sure he’s available for school runs or staying home with kids if they are absent from school. I think all my friends who have children have similar options where one parent is either staying at home or has part time/flexible hours. Before the pandemic children were getting ill and parents were arranging care for them whilst they were out of school weren’t they? Yes it’s difficult for some people and I really sympathise, but it really does vary whether parents can arrange childcare or not. There are other strategies to minimise risks for teachers such as masks and 2 metre rule, however that is difficult to physically manage in schools I guess. I had a high risk pregnancy and most of my consultations were done over the phone. My baby was born via c section and I had to have a covid test before surgery. All these things are steps taken to protect medics so why can’t teachers have similar steps taken to keep them safe if it’s possible. The frontline nhs staff have all my respect as they work with critical cases and have soldiered on as really they have no other option. Can’t find the words to describe how much I adore their dedication and bravery.

@PerfectPearl I should be grateful? Wow I can tell you've never worked a day on busy nhs ward