Am I missing the point here...

[kookykins]

I'm going to try and make this as measured as I can and try not to make it come across like a torrent of frustration.

Why is it that teachers are getting to say when schools go back? Why does it feel like teachers are constantly complaining about the virus? No one is an ideal situation right now so why does it feel like they are being allowed to 'opt out' of their careers now times are tough.

I work in a busy NHS hospital and It honestly sickens and saddens me that there are men and women, many parents relying on schools to open, relying on their children's education being properly resumed next week they are giving life saving treatment in dire situations every day. I haven't heard them complaining about having to come in and save lives work extra hours and a lot on low pay.

Teachers to an extent have chosen a career to support teach and mentor our children I feel when the going has got touch (very tough fair enough) they are opting out...however many of these teachers will expect ITU nurses to treat someone in their family who happens to get ill with this virus. How can this be? How is this ok?

I have friends who are teachers who don't feel like this and who want to get back to work but are very much being pulled along by the union so I don't want to paint all teachers with the same brush...

What happens to the children who need to go back to school, who need that hot meal that support that escape? Do they not matter?

Surely the children of this country are a higher priority right now?
Teachers and unions are being given insane amounts of power right now and I don't understand it. If we are all meant to 'be in it together' then why aren't we all cracking on like the next person and getting on with our jobs because we realise the impact if we don't...

Rant over...

@WasSchoolTeacherSecondary

ofgavin It's all so wrong, stealing a living. I agree with you on this point. I quit after 28 years at the chalkface because I couldn't take the self-serving hypocrisy of the teaching profession any longer.

In my experience, the majority of frontline teachers do their best in a system which is doomed to failure due to atrociously poor senior leadership, and Local Authority responsibility/monitoring.

However, the 'education' which is provided is not good enough at the best of times ... and under the current conditions, probably non-existent.

Any teachers who were allowed to abdicate their responsibilities during the first lockdown should be dismissed, along with the 'senior leadership teams' who allowed them to do this.

I sincerely hope that one good outcome of the pandemic will be that parents use their newfound awareness of the deficiencies of educational provision to DEMAND an overhaul of the whole system with vastly increased accountability.

Most parents would be absolutely horrified if they knew what their children experience day after day in mainstream state schools.

What nonsense.

Yes, there are some shit schools. Most schools are not shit, in normal times.

Some schools did not provide good education last summer term. This is because the Dfe suspended the curriculum and reopened schools as childcare settings. Unless schools did not fulfill this requirement, then no one within them 'abdicated their responsibilities.'

I mean, I agree with you that the education system needs an overhaul, but I'd rather you didn't kick a profession that's on its knees.

I get the point, supermarket workers come In to contact with far more people than teachers and yes masks should be worn but not everyone does and no kids do in supermarkets....

Adults tho come insanely close to supermarket workers these workers have to constant touch products other peoe have touched...

Most parents would be absolutely horrified if they knew what their children experience day after day in mainstream state schools.

Sounds like you have some safeguarding concerns. I hope you have reported them to the appropriate authorities.

I spent 28 years working in five different settings in one of the wealthiest Home Counties. I witnessed daily abdication of basic responsibilities by some teachers, many 'managers' and most LA staff employed to monitor standards.

I can only imagine the opportunism which has occurred on the excuse of the pandemic by SOME, certainly not all, staff, as evidenced by the large number of parents who are complaining of little or no work being set, and/or that work being of very poor quality.
Many professions are on their knees at the moment, which will be made worse by parents having to organise childcare at short notice or attempt to supervise and support their own children while trying to WFH.
Further, one of the reasons so many professions and industrial sectors in the UK are on their knees is the decades of atrociously-let down students our state schools have churned out.

A good start in the state sector would be a fairer distribution of students per capita; get the skiving 'Extended Leadership Team' spreadsheet goons out of their offices and halve the size of frontline teachers' classes. This would reduce both transmission of the virus and teacher workload. However, that's just one of the many elephants in the room.

Parents who work hard in their own jobs and are held accountable for the standards of their own work are perfectly within their rights to voice their disappointment with their children being let down, both now and in normal times.

100% agree

Everyone has a right to as much safety as possible in the workplace. I don't understand why people seem to think this is wrong.

In Victorian times unions were the ones who fought for the rights of workers to be safe at work. This is just the same.

There are measures that could be put in place that would make schools safer for both the children and the adults who work there. This government chooses not to do that. What choice do staff have?

On another forum I saw the same debate. The parent of a teacher told the parent of a student that their child's GCSEs were not worth the sacrifice of her child's health. She's right.

If you want schools open stop bashing teachers for wanting to be safer and start lobbying for a safer environment for all.

Your DCs education is not worth the life of one single teacher, when it could be prevented.

@LizzieVereker

Firstly teachers as individuals are not calling the shots, but they have been advised by the largest union not to attend work to teach whole classes under Section 44 of the Safety at Work Act, because schools are unsafe when all students are in attendance. All individuals regardless of their profession have this right. Teachers have been advised that they must teach from home or attend school to teach small groups of vulnerable children or kw’s children because this is safe.

Schools are unsafe...no the union believes they are unsafe (like they believe a lot of things that stop any teaching).

Teachers are teaching from home...(or will be).....err no. Very few have laptops. Some are happy using their own laptops for work but the militant minority dig in and refuse.
Last time it was suggested about teaching kids remotely...ie a mix of kids in class and those needing to be home isolating for example....in trots the union rep to the head teacher to make representations that:
The teachers have not attended a course on Microsoft Teams. They cannot be expected to use equipment they are not familiar with. Teaching kids at home could be a safeguarding issue and/or it is an equality issue if others see their house.......etc etc..

Our head teacher's views are that about 70-80% of the teachers are hard working and dedicated and want to find a way to make it work. The remaining minority are workshy, usually the ones with the most amount of sick leave, always the ones requesting special leave for child care (as their other half's can't possibly cover it) and demand their union rep oppose anything unless they have 100% safety.

As ever the teaching unions won't cover themselves in glory with this one. They are locally just viewed like the child that cries wolf...they just oppose everything. It is either a health and safety issue, an equality issue, it's unfair, they are not trained to do it, it's a safeguarding issue.....it would be laughable if the situation wasn't as it is. I suspect all the shop workers aren't all shouting the odds like this

Interesting the Head of OFSTED has just come out and opposed shutting schools citing the damage it does to children.

@AntiHop he will be at work so unfortunately no my parents wouldn't be able to help either as again one works...as an nhs key worker and the other will also be at work

@EreLongDoneDoDoesDid how lovely! Don't think there's any need for the name calling...

@kookykins is your problem more to do with your child not being able to get a key worker place in school if they shut because your husband is not a key worker rather than schools shutting per se? You mention in your previous posts that you would feel bad leaving your team short staffed. As a fellow NHS worker I totally get that.
I also understand as an NHS worker why schools need to shut. There clearly needs to be provision for school places/childcare so that every skilled trained HCP can go out to work to fight this pandemic in the event of school closures.

@LacyEdge thanks it is indeed a serious post

“”But we can't just decide to leave or that actually it's too dangerous to work (talking from an nhs workers perspective here)”

Um you do know that hoards of NHS workers are working from home and not doing face to face or are you deliberately choosing to hide that fact. Pretty much the whole of CAMHs is not doing face to face, needy children haven’t been in the same room with a human since last March. I haven’t had a face to face GP appointment since March and wasn’t allowed in my local hospital for an appointment without a neg Covid test. My dc was put on a holding ward until he had a neg Covid test. A family member was only able to have a much needed op with a neg Covid test......

Imagine if school staff refused entry to children without neg Covid tests, refused face to face point blank or insisted on plastic screens and social distancing just like other sectors of the work place enjoy.

I’ve not even read all these responses but seriously?? Just because people in hospitals who are saving lives have to go to work means teachers, without ppe, working with kids who don’t give a damn about SD, should feel obliged to? ITU nurses have full ppe and patients who are tests thoroughly and regularly. Teachers are around hundreds of kids a day in a flimsy mask, with up until now, no testing. I’m not surprised a lot of them are less than keen to return!!!!
Also I never heard any teacher complain about having to take their turn to go in To ensure vulnerable kids and keyworker’s kids could be in school.

Well said 👏🏼👏🏼

You are provided with PPE though. My husband isn't! Why should you be provided with PPE and he isn't? The kids cough on him, don't socially distance. Yes it's SEN so he's had to teach all the way through face to face!

@Strand27 everyone I know is still doing their normal nhs work

I think there is an incorrect general consensus that nhs workers aren't petrified to go into work most days and that they are protected by ppe at all times - just incorrect although I agree it sounds better than the teachers having none. My friends who are teachers have said some teachers are deciding not to wear ppe and actually the head teachers have been telling too...

I haven't come on here to bash teachers and I don't think my op is teacher bashing at all. Sorry if teachers feel this way. I haven't read many other posts so didn't know this teacher bashing was a thing. But at the same time not everything which questions or disagrees with teachers should be assumed to be teacher bashing either. I have asked questions I want answers as to why my DD may have to resit a year but I am still expected at work day and night (including through the night)

Nhs workers have to answer questions every single day and teachers also need to be accountable of schools close or they go on a (paid I'm guessing) strike...

Surely the children of this country are a higher priority right now?

I agree with the OP. Wanted to pick up on this. The children SHOULD be one of the highest priorities, but everything this government does indicates how low down its list children sit. Children are going to be paying for this shitshow for decades, but they don't vote so they get basically nothing from the government, which is too scared to tell elderly people to protect themselves by staying in for a few more weeks. I think most teachers recognise that school is best for children, but a lot are carried away by union scaremongering. I work in a heavily unionised sector and can see how it happens, would be nice if our teachers had well developed critical thinking skills

I'm off to another shift now...also just to add a very very small minority of nhs workers have had the vaccine I personally know zero...I think some posters need to do their research regarding how quickly the vaccine is getting administered because frankly it isn't in my hospital...

www.nhsemployers.org/covid19/health-safety-and-wellbeing/supporting-staff-at-home-and-work/enabling-and-supporting-staff-to-work-from-home

We’ll have the same as NHS workers please.

You did come here to teacher bash and as for your ridiculous comment about teachers refusing to wear PPE, it speaks volumes.

I think most of us can see OP for what she is, Strand.

I've been in teacher conversations all night, (I work shifts) on 2 other threads. It's really opened my eyes

Some of the posts I see on these boards and other forums, by "teachers" or posters claiming to represent them, I believe are not who they say they are. I'm not saying all, just some.

The teachers I've talked to IRL, or who are known to definitely be teachers, have not said they want to stay out of school and are not expressing the kind of opinons I see on social media, where there are just way too many, of what I believe are, hardcore political activists and agitators.

And here comes Flax spouting the same old rubbish. what a surprise Flax, you were on teacher bashing threads all night.

I rest my case

Your case being?

@WasSchoolTeacherSecondary

I spent 28 years working in five different settings in one of the wealthiest Home Counties. I witnessed daily abdication of basic responsibilities by some teachers, many 'managers' and most LA staff employed to monitor standards.

I can only imagine the opportunism which has occurred on the excuse of the pandemic by SOME, certainly not all, staff, as evidenced by the large number of parents who are complaining of little or no work being set, and/or that work being of very poor quality.
Many professions are on their knees at the moment, which will be made worse by parents having to organise childcare at short notice or attempt to supervise and support their own children while trying to WFH.
Further, one of the reasons so many professions and industrial sectors in the UK are on their knees is the decades of atrociously-let down students our state schools have churned out.

A good start in the state sector would be a fairer distribution of students per capita; get the skiving 'Extended Leadership Team' spreadsheet goons out of their offices and halve the size of frontline teachers' classes. This would reduce both transmission of the virus and teacher workload. However, that's just one of the many elephants in the room.

Parents who work hard in their own jobs and are held accountable for the standards of their own work are perfectly within their rights to voice their disappointment with their children being let down, both now and in normal times.

Thank you for posting these comments, this is very enlightening indeed, and honest