The idiots are actually going to mess up the vaccine rollout aren't they

[Dawnofanewera]

Just when I thought they couldn't handle the pandemic any worse they are now messing up the vaccine rollout! Bangs head on table

Just stop! FFS!

You are reading a shite journalistic take on some complex science.

As others have posted on similar threads this is just scaremongering and spreading of disinformation.

At one of the news conferences here a reporter asked the top doctor if we would follow suit like the UK, his face smiled and he said a flat straight out NO
that c*t Johnson has turned us into a laughing stock
Alas

If they manage to vaccinate one million people per week, week after week after week & if there is 80% uptake then it will only take two years for everyone to have both doses :)

Professor Martin Hibberd of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, has said:

“The science has been of a very high standard for the vaccine trials, and it is highly frustrating that this is now being ignored. We do not know how the vaccine will perform with an increased gap between the injections, and we do not know how protective a single injection is going to be over the longer term. So why take the risk?”

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Just stop! FFS!

You are reading a shite journalistic take on some complex science.

As others have posted on similar threads this is just scaremongering and spreading of disinformation.

This

You should read about the vaccine rollout in France and in Germany.... they’re not handling it well at all!

My understanding is that, while one dose may only be 50-odd% effective at preventing disease, it is highly effective at presenting hospital admission. So a higher proportion of people being kept out of hospital for a roughly 50/50 chance of developing either mild symptoms or no symptoms at all makes sense to me?
I’m not an expert though and unlike some I am not pretending I am.

@Haffiana

Professor Martin Hibberd of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, has said:

“The science has been of a very high standard for the vaccine trials, and it is highly frustrating that this is now being ignored. We do not know how the vaccine will perform with an increased gap between the injections, and we do not know how protective a single injection is going to be over the longer term. So why take the risk?”

Pfizer don’t know have test data on how protective the 2nd dose will be in the long term either. But they don’t have other evidence and science that tells them this. As do the MHRA and JCVI who recommended this approach.

There was always latitude to give the second dose of Pfizer after more than 3 weeks. There needed to be because it is an obvious problem in care homes where outbreaks could occur delaying second visits. Or where a patient is ill and not able to return.

There has always been science that supports the view that vaccine reaction would last longer than 3 weeks. It’s the reaction by our immune system that is relevant not the way the vaccine provokes it. A vaccine of any nature will give protection for this period. This doesn’t need test data to show it.

Just like Pfizer didn’t need to provide test data for a year on the second dose. Other scientific evidence and understanding exists for this to be accepted.

Which scientists?

Can you show evidence of a single scientist endorsing this approach in public?

The government saying they are "following the science" is not the same thing.

All I have seen are HCP saying this is unlikely to be effective, particularly when mixing vaccines.

Do you not actually know what the JCVI is? If not, maybe it's time to accept that your view on vaccines may not be the most informed...

Here's the membership list:

Membership
Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
Professor Wei Shen Lim, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
Professor Judith Breuer (University College Hospital)
Dr Peter Elton (Greater Manchester, Lancashire, South Cumbria Strategic Clinical Network)
Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
Alison Lawrence (lay member)
Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)

Can you show evidence of a single scientist endorsing this approach in public?

The JCVI, the four Chief Medical Officers, the board of the MHRA?

Here’s the JCVI’s statement:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-30-december-2020/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination-30-december-2020

Just because it’s ‘the government’ doesn’t mean it’s a decision thought up by Boris Johnson and the other politicians. Sometimes the scientific decisions are made by actual scientists.

I read an item on the BBC news site last night that said that the BMJ was asking tge New York Times to retract its article about Britain planning to mix and match vaccines as there is no PLAN, what there is is a descision that when there is no alternative or records are lost they will offer a second vaccine even if they are not confident its the same as the first. They are not planning to do this except in extremis. Unfortunately the government has been so rubbish that everyone believes the worst immediately.

@Haffiana

Professor Martin Hibberd of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, has said:

“The science has been of a very high standard for the vaccine trials, and it is highly frustrating that this is now being ignored. We do not know how the vaccine will perform with an increased gap between the injections, and we do not know how protective a single injection is going to be over the longer term. So why take the risk?”

Also from that article:

Professor Stephen Evans, also of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine: “We have a crisis situation in the UK with a new variant spreading rapidly, and – as has become clear to everyone during 2020 – delays cost lives. When resources of doses and people to administer vaccinations are limited, vaccinating more people with potentially less efficacy is demonstrably better than a fuller efficacy in only half.”

This answers the “why” that Martin Hibberd asks.

It’s interesting that Pfizer didn’t test this scenario because the other producers did. It’s obvious that there could be scenarios where people could not get their second dose for longer than 3 weeks. They must have thought their science would hold and the one dose vaccine would be still effective until then. Like most of the scientific community.

Again they don’t issue statement saying they don’t have test data for 9 months after the 2nd dose and therefore it might not work. Because they know it will.

Johnson has just said Scientific advisors say lots of different things and don't always agree..... (this on lockdowns)

My neighbour ( 50yo - v vulnerable) told the 1st dose gives her around 40 to 50% now, because it suits the govt, this 1st dose is 90% effective.
Which begs the question why did Pfizer even bother with a 2nd dose?

We do not know if a single dose will prevent hospitalisations in vulnerable people.

There are tests to determine whether mixing the vaccines is effective or beneficial. There are contingencies to allow vaccines to be mixed in certain circumstances. There is no plan to mix the vaccines for the vast majority of people.

There isn't consensus around whether delaying the 2nd vaccine is the right thing to do or not. The JCVI believe it is. The government are acting on their advice.

Professor Stephen Evans, also of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine: “We have a crisis situation in the UK with a new variant spreading rapidly, and – as has become clear to everyone during 2020 – delays cost lives. When resources of doses and people to administer vaccinations are limited, vaccinating more people with potentially less efficacy is demonstrably better than a fuller efficacy in only half.”

This answers the “why” that Martin Hibberd asks.

Sure, the 'why' is obvious. I have to agree with it myself.

But they need to stop peddling that 90% efficacy after one shot crap. They need to be open with the public or they will have the Mother of all backlashes when people understand they have been lied to.

People will alter their behaviour based on an assumption of 90% protection after their first shot when it simply isn't true.

There's a lot we don't know about any of the vaccines in the pipeline. Wonder why that is?

Is it

A) the same as any vaccine at this stage in its development

B) a new type of vaccine and a lot more unknowns, past the plain efficacy data

C) a lot more information hitting journalists and Joe Public and a lot of disinformation, misunderstanding and misrepresentation of opinions and facts leading to more and more fear mongering

D) all of the above ... and more!

The supposed disagreement between scientists is the usual, and essential, questioning of data. The normal shit that goes on behind the scenes when we don't care and aren't given snippets of data, translated by journos who don't understand what the fuck they are reporting.

Track Robert Preston's questions to scientists if you don't believe me. I used to think he was quite switched on, intelligent. But his covid track record is appallingly uninformed and occasionally ludicrous... see him arguing with an epidemiologist about basic epidemiology for one such stupidity!

Tbh, I'm in Ireland and every news station is in disbelief that the UK are risking peoples lives like this, they are giving the impression that this will work, it may, or may not but I don't think I'd be too happy if it were me.

If I were in Ireland I'd be more worried about the fact that you only started vaccinating four days ago?

Is anyone really surprised that the vaccine rollout will be a clusterfuck like everything else

Not even remotely, but then this is why some of us placed little faith in them in the first place ... not necessarily because of the vaccines themselves, but because of the near certainty that this too would be fouled up

As said so often, the only option left in the end may well be to live with the virus. I don't imagine that would be pretty, but when all else has failed it may be the only thing left to us

Everything with the vaccine has been a huge success, but the roll-out is not going fast enough at all.

Allocating the task solely to GPs is the problem. They are only able to manage at the current rate, which is only justifiable due to the very fragile nature and scarcity of the Pfizer vaccine.

It will not be good enough for the much easier and more available AZ Oxford vaccine.

Although the government have allegedly given GPs £2billion to do the vaccines, the government are going to have to use all the pharmacies in the country, plus other providers to get anywhere near the rate of vaccination required.

The priority lists needed to be managed to the nth degree for the very scarce and fragile Pfizer vaccine, but with 100 million doses procured of the AZ Oxford vaccine, some relaxation of the current prioritisation is going to be needed to avoid a massively restrictive bottleneck.

AZ Oxford vaccines supposed to start tomorrow. No pharmacies or drive-through sites ready to roll-out vaccines tomorrow or any time soon.

At one of the news conferences here [in Ireland] a reporter asked the top doctor if we would follow suit like the UK, his face smiled and he said a flat straight out NO.

Irish Times yesterday;

The State is to examine if the period between the two required doses of Covid-19 vaccinations could be extended in order to accelerate the rollout, as is being done in the United Kingdom.

Prof Brian MacCraith, chair of the State’s Covid-19 taskforce, said the issue of increasing the gap between vaccine doses had been discussed by the group in recent days.

“On foot of our discussions, a formal request has been issued from [chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan] to request [the National Immunisation Advisory Committee, NIAC] to explore the issue and provide some guidance on the matter."

Prof Karina Butler, the chair of the NIAC, said she was contacting counterparts in Europe and the UK to seek more data, which would have to support any recommendation or guidance on the matter.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/prolonging-interval-between-covid-vaccine-shots-to-aid-rollout-speed-examined-1.4448401

@Dawnofanewera

Could you please post a link to the information you are referring to before everyone jumps in to flame the government?

PHE have clarified that they will not recommend mixing vaccines.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-mixing-coronavirus-vaccines-is-not-recommended-health-agency-warns-12177320

StrikethroughAfter questions were raised about the risks, Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisations at PHE, told Sky News that mixing is not recommended and should only happen on rare occasions

And as @Wbeezer has said, the BMJ has already asked the NYT (if it's theirs article you intended to quote) to rectify the information

the BMJ was asking tge New York Times to retract its article about Britain planning to mix and match vaccines as there is no PLAN

the roll-out is not going fast enough at all. That's probably cos, you knoq, they've got to make the fucking stuff. And all the peripherals that go with it. And staff it. And get recipients ready.

The instant world of social media doesn't work with real things!

And again... the BMJ was asking the New York Times to retract its article about Britain planning to mix and match vaccines as there is no PLAN

This isn't true though.

Have you seen the date on vaccine rollout? The UK is third after Israel, who are highly militarised and Bahrein, who are tiny.

ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Now, now @ChardonnaysPetDragon Stop with the facts. You'll give posters the conniptions!