Bubbles - need to come with more warning

[beckypv]

I think the government needs to place more warnings on the fact that even though you can be in a bubble, it doesn’t make it any more safe. Just like people were saying before Xmas that ‘the virus doesn’t stop for Xmas’, I think it should be highlighted that it also doesn’t stop for bubbles. Reading that the spread is greater now, I’m trying to think where this is happening and I’m imagining bubble transmission is quite a big thing. I totally understand that bubbles are necessary for mental and physical support for some people for some of the time, but the under 1 rule and the child care rule (although technically shouldn’t), just give a free pass to mixing inside which isn’t always necessary. I would just like it highlighted more that just because you can be in a bubble, it doesn’t mean you should. So often I hear the phrase “it’s ok we’re in a bubble with them”. Yes they’re right, in terms of the rules..... but in terms of risk, it’s not ok, and with schools going back, perhaps some of these bubbles need to be reined in a bit. A happy family of 5 with an under 1 staying over at the grandparents doesn’t seem necessary mixing at the moment given the current situation.

I am in a support bubble with my mum. She travels 45 miles to get to mine where we walk my dog, and have lunch. I see once her once week.

There is nothing in the guidelines to say you have to deliver care or practical support as a criteria for being in a support bubble. Is this the new "one hour exercise" that people like to make up?
And talk of "just because you can, does not mean you should", is just one step from judging people for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

I've never felt like I needed any help before, not even from DH, and my first woke every 45 mins for months

No I don’t as my children are school age. And I’m not saying the under 1 bubble should be scrapped as I do know that the early months can be difficult. What I’m saying in general, is that bubbles are a risk (not just to those in it, but to the greater goal), and should be only used when the need is bigger than the risk. The need for a whole family to bubble with grandparents rather than just the carer/parent is surely often unnecessary. This is a general statement and obviously individual circumstances are all different and that’s why the bubbles rules were importantly established in the first place. I’m am completely referring to those using ‘bubble’ as an excuse to mix rather than because of a need to mix.

I don’t think people need it so let out to them, by now everyone knows mixing with anyone carries more risk (I hope anyway!). But people allowed bubbles are allowed them for specific reasons and should use them however they think it’s needed. We have a support bubble with friends, we both have young babies so it’s allowed. You may see us skipping happily in and out of each others houses a few times a week, having dinners and drinks, group walks and we did New Years and Christmas together. Someone looking in from the outside may think this is abusing it and we are using it purely for socialising. Before bubbles for under ones were allowed, we were all really struggling and I was being assessed for PND. It was so hard and isolating and I spent many days crying continuously. The difference this support bubble has made is amazing, I don’t begrudge anyone for using a bubble they’re allowed.

@MillieEpple

It’s not to make you feel bad , I think the comment was more about people who pick and mix bubbles or think it makes them safe .

I have to do a trip with my parents next week to see new accommodation and I am dreading it because I will have to have close physical contact to get them into a car for the journey . They are very immobile. I really do NOT a want to do it . But apparently I have no choice .

Totally agree. Before Xmas we bubbled for childcare with my parents as I was finally getting work in (self employed) after months of nothing.

However, if kids go back we are knocking that on the head as it's too risky.

I will have to make it work and stay up late / tag team / stick them in front of the TV but we have that option, it's safer so we're using it

Unsure33, I’m really sorry for your friend. What a heartbreaking situation for him to be in. I really hope he gets better soon.

I think this speaks to a wider issue - the Covid laws are intended to reduce transmission, but there is not a perfect correlation between the laws and the actual risks. Some activities are legal but risky (like having a childcare bubble with elderly grandparents) and some are illegal but low risk (like going for a walk with two other people rather than one in a Tier 4 area).

Some people care about the risk but not the law, others follow the law but don't really consider the actual risks, some consider both, a few neither. It's important to think about which category and on what basis you are making decisions.

I think people have been idiots tbh. I'm not really keen on blaming individuals when there has been huge systemic failure but there seems to be such a lack

Why can't we edit posts!!!

There's a real lack of personal responsibility at the moment.

We need to realise that the government are taking decisions based on the least amount they need to do to stop the NHS being overwhelmed (which isn't working now) and pandering to people in the cabinet and the public who don't want any restrictions.

Just because something is allowed it doesn't mean it's safe or ok to do.

I'd suggest that it was kind of common sense though. As a whole, we're trying to minimise social contacts as much as possible, and ANY additional contact - whether that's in school, a childcare bubble/support bubble, or ordering takeout - will add risk, of varying degrees.

The only way to completely negate that risk is to stock up on tinned food to last a year, and go into 100% hibernation (and even then the shopping is a risk). Obviously that's not possible for the vast majority of people, and therefore won't be done.

I have a friend who's next door neighbour sadly died of covid back in the summer. This friend was insistent that the neighbour must have caught it from a letter the postman delivered, as she hadn't been going out anyway. Yet they had a street party on VE day, they were all in their front gardens, and they were all swapping food and drinks. But she cannot accept that this contact was approximately 1,000,000% more responsible than the sodding postman. People don't seem to 'get it'. They think if something's within the rules, they're safe. They're not.

My mum and I are well aware that our support bubble carries risks. However we've discussed and decided that the risk to my mental health (which was bad before covid) is higher.

Problem is people are having single household bubbles, with under 1 year old bubbles and childcare bubbles not one but all 3 at the same time!

OP I agree. So many people seem to take a very much all or nothing approach, rather then limiting points of transmission. Be it bubbles, or schools, so the “well they are in class all day together so what does it matter if they have a play date”. Lots of people (I’m in Tier 4) went to Christmas with family, send kids for weekends, because “we are in a childcare bubble so it makes no difference”. People don’t seem to understand that it’s about breaking routes of transmission. So just because granny provides childcare on 2 days does not mean you can see her whenever you want. Limit it to the 2 days not 4 or 5.

We can’t socially isolate forever, it’s coming up to a year.

If I want to form a bubble I will, very aware of the risks.

@OverTheRainbow88

We can’t socially isolate forever, it’s coming up to a year.

If I want to form a bubble I will, very aware of the risks.

You don't need to get on your high horse about it, nobody is suggesting you shouldn't have a bubble, only that we all need to be aware of the risks when doing so.

Your attitude of 'I'll do what I bloody well want!' isn't needed here. You're good.

@Castiel07

Problem is people are having single household bubbles, with under 1 year old bubbles and childcare bubbles not one but all 3 at the same time!

Well that’s just going against the rules, instead of the rules being too risky.

The word bubble really pisses me off now

People are generally doing their best under difficult circumstances, and you often dont know enough to judge.

I'm a support bubble for dm. She lives alone, early 80s, with dementia. Has carers visiting, but still leaves her confused and alone 22 hours each day. Respite services closed and not a great time to go into a nursing home.

I visit several times a week, and she came to ours for the first time since march on xmas and ny days. She's going deaf so often doesn't hear the phone, could never manage skype alone etc. The impact of being on her own so much this year has been really bad for her. I hate having to visit knowing i could unknowingly pass the virus to her, esp as a vaccine is now so close, but feel i have no choice. She cant give informed consent as she can't retain the info. I sway between thinking i shouldn't visit at all, to thinking, if I'm going to visit, i may as well see her much more.

The government cant legislate for all circumstances, they have to give some flexibility. You might not agree with everyone's decision but most people are trying their best

yabvu

should be only used when the need is bigger than the risk.

So how do we decide that? What threshold do supporters propose, since you thought this all thru so carefully you must have an instant specific answer. And how are these criteria made into clear specific messaging that the public can understand and easily tell and not judge others if they drew the threshold line somewhere else?

Oh, you haven't slit your wrists today, you only thought about it once, so it's "not worth the risk" to be in a bubble yet -- I mean, between that and

"Gosh I'm lonely and finding some things tough without support" - Where do you draw the "worth the risk line?" between those 2 extreme scenarios?

The main reason people ever say "It's ok we're in a bubble" is because they are afraid of the police visiting when nosy parkers judge things they don't understand, not because the bubblers think it's a zero risk transmission situation.

@LindaEllen

Do you really think 8 months down the line people aren’t aware that seeing an elderly relative is a risk?

But, if there’s no other option and they are providing the care/food/company it isn’t helpful being told it’s risky.

That is obvious but unavoidable.

I'm in a support bubble with my sister and her partner, and it has made the last period somewhat more bearable - I live by myself and work from home and found the first lockdown very hard, and I'm a fairly self-sufficient introvert. Just knowing that every few weeks we can get together for a meal and a few drinks or a takeaway makes life a lot more bearable. But, yes, we're all aware that it ups the risks slightly - however we live fairly similar lifestyles generally.

Bubbles are fine. Yes there's risks but no more riskier than if you lived with that person and that is the idea. To behave as if you are one household

My sibling and dp (both nhs but not covid-facing/front line iyswim) were more than happy to bubble with my mum when it suited them for childcare, going out for the EOTHO meals, nights away etc. Funny how they then decided to drop her like a brick at Christmas due to 'covid risks' and pile the pressure on me to host her despite me being in a single parent bubble since they were allowed.

We had a conversation with someone about this. She said she was going to a pub for Christmas dinner with her neighbours "But it's alright, they're in my bubble" My husband said "Don't they see their family though? There are a lot of them in your village?" She said "Yes, of course, but I don't mix with any of them". I despair.