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Original poster

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.

69 replies

2boysand1princess · 01/01/2021 18:33

I try not to check but sometimes end up reading an article where they have stated the age groups of those who have died in the last 24 hrs of covid. Occasionally it says something like: 18 died with no underlying health conditions aged 40-90
I’ve noticed that daily there’s at least one case of someone under the age of 50-60 who dies of covid but has no underlying condition.
Could that person have been obese perhaps? Would that be classed as no underlying health condition?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Madhairday · 02/01/2021 00:28

Obesity is counted as underlying condition when it comes to these stats.

As is psoriasis, depression and glaucoma.

Not everyone (or anything anywhere near everyone) who dies with an underlying condition is wobbling at death's door. On the contrary.

This narrative is dangerous as well as ableist.

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.
RememberSelfCompassion · 02/01/2021 00:32

Op I think thats partly the point. Look at the above chart - most of those you'd assume wouldn't affect covid but by reportig low numbers of those with no conditions mskes people feel safe as if they wont get it. Its a kind of misreporting.

The list of those CV and ECV should show you who is genuinely higher risk. The adthma risk for ECV is severe asthma/
uncontrolled asthma.

Original poster
2boysand1princess · 02/01/2021 00:33

@Madhairday

Obesity is counted as underlying condition when it comes to these stats.

As is psoriasis, depression and glaucoma.

Not everyone (or anything anywhere near everyone) who dies with an underlying condition is wobbling at death's door. On the contrary.

This narrative is dangerous as well as ableist.

Interesting! Never in a million years would I have guessed the conditions! Fractured arm? I had a fractured arm as a kid!
OP posts:
Madhairday · 02/01/2021 00:36

Yes. And if you look at this graphic, according to ONS the 'other' category - which includes all those mild things above and many, many more - makes up 72% of these pre existing conditions.

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.
eeeyulesmiles · 02/01/2021 00:46

It's really important that real people, the ones who really matter, the ones who (think they) have nothing that could be classed as an underlying condition, are reminded every single day how relatively safe from covid they are. Thank goodness the deaths stats are never released without that carefully targeted reassurance that the deaths are mostly people who are Not Like Them.

Imagine if that message wasn't repeated every single day?! People might forget, and just think of the worry those normal, real people might then have, on top of the dreadful burden of their good health?! Not only that, but those of us with underlying health conditions might start to think our deaths would actually count as real deaths, too (rather than them being carefully reported separately from the deaths of real people).

Thank goodness we never let that happen.

DianaT1969 · 02/01/2021 00:52

There are a few MN posters with an agenda who keep posting that this virus has "only" killed 380 people under 60, who didn't have underlying health conditions. I looked at the stats and it was more like 4,000 at that time. The 3,600 ish they didn't include were those with a BMI of 30+, mild asthma, diabetes etc.
2 years ago my BMI was 29. I was running, going to Zumba, doing Pilates & yoga regularly. I wore size 14 clothes.

Yet 1 point more on the BMI scale and I would have been written off as a Covid fatality due to obesity.

Em777 · 02/01/2021 00:57

I really wish the government would drop this. We’re far enough into the pandemic now that it’s clear that young healthy people can and do die of this disease.

It comes across as “these people don’t count”.

Original poster
2boysand1princess · 02/01/2021 00:57

@DianaT1969

There are a few MN posters with an agenda who keep posting that this virus has "only" killed 380 people under 60, who didn't have underlying health conditions. I looked at the stats and it was more like 4,000 at that time. The 3,600 ish they didn't include were those with a BMI of 30+, mild asthma, diabetes etc. 2 years ago my BMI was 29. I was running, going to Zumba, doing Pilates & yoga regularly. I wore size 14 clothes.

Yet 1 point more on the BMI scale and I would have been written off as a Covid fatality due to obesity.

@DianaT1969 “ There are a few MN posters with an agenda who keep posting that this virus has "only" killed 380 people under 60, who didn't have underlying health conditions.”

Exactly this reason why I was intrigued to find out what underlying conditions are and whether obesity is one. Glad I posted as I am genuinely shocked to see the official list of underlying conditions. I am certain not many people are aware of it, but like me today will have learnt something new!

OP posts:
AKissAndASmile · 02/01/2021 01:02

@Madhairday
Is that real?! Fractured arm....psoriasis ...ever been diagnosed with a mental health condition....migraine Confused
No wonder barely anyone that dies from covid is classed as not having underlying health conditions. I'm classed as one using this criteria and I don't have an active medical condition, am not on any medication, and do not see any doctors for anything Confused

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 01:41

Why do no journalists ever ask these questions when they get the chance
If that list is true it would be almost impossible to find someone with no underlying condition
Where can we search this info as a fractured leg 10 years ago I can't see how underlyimg condition and may even be hard fo find in someones records

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 01:46

You do realise that an underlying health condition could something as simple as dermatitis op.
72% of the desths were other and included gems like dermatitis and broken limbs.. I am pretty sure obesity is on there too
Clearly some people are clutching at any straw possible to minimise this.
Sorry the graphic isn't very clear.

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.
donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 01:51

@Northernsoulgirl45 where are you getting that graph from though ? Googling I can't find anything on an official site to say what is counted

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 01:57

It was on a twitter feed shared on another thread but I believe it was extrapolated from ONS data.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 01:58

@Northernsoulgirl45 see i can't find it on ons hard to navigate I am
Dubious with things just posted on twitter

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 01:59

Apologies too for not reading thread before posting .

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 01:59

I found the ONS site difficult to navigate too. I wish it was clearer.

TooTrueToBeGood · 02/01/2021 02:03

As I understand it, it is standard practice for the certifying doctor to record any known medical conditions on a death certificate, covid being a factor or not. When they do that on a death certificate for someone who has died following a positive covid test they are not implying there is any connection. They are simply filling out the certificate in line with long-standing standard procedures, they are not drawing conclusions.

Now potentially some of these conditions may well increase the risk of death or serious illness from covid and there may well be statistics to demonstrate that. To conclude though that any and every pre-existing or underlying condition increases the risk is logically flawed in the extreme.

HandcuffsAndCheese · 02/01/2021 02:04

@2boysand1princess

Right get it now. So a lot of these deaths of young people with no underlying health conditions were probably down to being extremely overweight or obese. Still very tragic.
No.

Obesity IS an underlying condition for covid. Overweight isn't, but obese (bmi of over 30) is. Jesus, some kinds of skin conditions eg dermatitis, psoriasis are listed as underlying conditions! I read the full list on a medical journal website but I can't find it.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 02:07

@Northernsoulgirl45 all i can find is they mention what is on death cert as underlying and I can't see that saying fractured leg 10/20 years ago ? So I am confused if this thing being posted saying depression / sciroscis , fractured legs are considered underlying by ons and prob most people would have one of these from list thats going around
I can't find it on the ons site
Don't get me wrong at the end of the day none of knows who may be more unwell with this etc and thats why we should take it seriously
But if we are really counting depression or previous fracture as an undying condition then its even lore worrying

Monty27 · 02/01/2021 02:10

The absence of statistics means the government members in charge haven't got their shit together to keep up with the statistics
The ONS might at least give reports of when to expect stats they're usually reliable

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 02:13

This was the Twitter feed but when I look at the link there underlying conditions aren't mentioned and nothing on a Google search as this has been troubling me for a while. So I can't categorically say it is true. It it would make sense of the figures.

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.
Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 02:15

Actually link in middle looks interesting.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 02:19

Found this tucked away A definition of other would be good.

Announcing deaths and no underlying health conditions actual meaning.
RememberSelfCompassion · 02/01/2021 02:33

Treatment for a mh condition would include depression.
The other category is intriguing and the largest by far...

I wish all those that want to "blame" or "other" deaths onto obesity or being elderly would read this.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 02/01/2021 02:38

It really does need to be shared wide and far.

Swipe left for the next trending thread