Can primary homeschooling be enforced for non KW/V kids?

[Lemons1571]

For those of you who’s primary schools are closed next week, do you know if the DfE expectations of parents will be different now that the curriculum has to continue as normal? I am just thinking aloud really:

• If both parents are key workers, your primary kids will get a school place and do the curriculum work set whilst at school

• If one parent is a key worker and one is a SAHM, are you unlikely to get a place, and the SAHM is expected to spend the day organising the homeschooling

• What if one parent is a work-out-of-the-home keyworker, and the other parent is a non key worker wfh full time? Is there an expectation from schools that the wfh non-keyworker does everything? What if the school see no work submitted, as both parents jobs/incomes are equally essential to pay the mortgage and bills? Can the LA/school take action against the parents for not “doing it all”?

Any links to updated guidance welcome, as I am wondering if the continuation of the curriculum and the legal requirement for remote learning that came into force in October, has created any “carrot and stick” rules that work set remotely must be completed.

I very much doubt there will be any enforcement at all. Imagine being a teacher and having to hassle 30 parents who are also working full time.

I would imagine the primary schools will be very understanding.

Keep up with the reading and do bits where you can.

My DS's school is open next week but if they close at any point he won't be doing much school work at home. I am a single parent and I cannot work from home so I'll be forced to palm him off on whoever I know that's available to look after him while I work. I wouldn't expect them to help out with home schooling too.

"

• If both parents are key workers, your primary kids will get a school place and do the curriculum work set whilst at school"

@Lemons1571i don't think this is what happens.

Not really. Also homeschooling is very different from lessons.

No home learning can be enforced. Who would enforce it and what would the sanctions be?

KW provision ideally means that the children will be doing the remote learning set, but speaking from experience (as a teacher who taught KW children and as a parent whose children were in school) it is hard to manage with a wide range of ages in together.

I think Ofsted has requirements for the amount of time children are expected to work at hone, and they will expect to see schools setting out expectations that it's done, but I really can't see how it will be policed. They will likely just look for evidence that schools have contacted you to point out that you aren't doing it, and ask how they can help, so please don't complain when you get the call. We are just doing what Ofsted expect.

I think, rather than "enforcing" work, if you're not regularly handing in work or participating in live lessons then the school should be ringing you and working with you to set work that your child can access whilst you work. There's loads of different things such as audio powerpoints, videos, online learning games, phone calls from teachers or TA's to discuss work and listen to reading, watching videos, live worksheets that don't need printing off.

So if you have to work could you accommodate a requirement for example for a child to watch two videos, discuss them in a quick phone call with a TA and Do half an hour on an educational game?

Any decent school will understand your struggle and try to help you.

I thought it was 3 hours a day for primary kids. This is in the gov.uk section on remote education under “full guidance for reopening”. Schools are required to “inform parents immediately where engagement is a concern”

“When teaching pupils remotely, we expect schools to:

set assignments so that pupils have meaningful and ambitious work each day in a number of different subjects
set work that is of equivalent length to the core teaching pupils would receive in school, and as a minimum:
primary: 3 hours a day, on average, across the school cohort
secondary: 4 hours a day, with more for pupils working towards formal qualifications this year
provide frequent, clear explanations of new content, delivered by a teacher or through high-quality curriculum resources or videos
have systems for checking, at least weekly, whether pupils are engaging with their work, and inform parents immediately where engagement is a concern
gauge how well pupils are progressing through the curriculum using questions and other suitable tasks, and provide feedback, at least weekly, using digitally facilitated or whole-class feedback where appropriate
enable teachers to adjust the pace or difficulty of what is being taught in response to questions or assessments, including, where necessary, revising material or simplifying explanations to ensure pupils’ understanding
We expect schools to consider these expectations in relation to the pupils’ age, stage of development or special educational needs, for example where this would place significant demands on parents’ help or support. We expect schools to avoid an over-reliance on long-term projects or internet research activities.”

I didn't do anything the school set last time and nothing happened to me.

Yes, that's the guidance OP - three hours a day for primary. To be honest, we set just over an hour a day during the last lockdown and, as long as it was done, children weren't behind, but it was really just the things that Ofsted count as measurable and important - reading, maths, spag, writing. Obviously the fun stuff and the things you can't replicate at home had to go.

I personally think three hours a day is a lot for primary given that like you many people won't have three spare hours per child, but I guess we have all the people who bleated that "my child isn't plugged in 9 - 3 so there's no learning coming from my school" to thank for that.

It's much better to find out first what parents can manage per child and then fill that time with the things that they're going to be tested on when they get back. At primary anyway, where below Y5 you aren't going to get much out of them without adult help.

Trust me, in the event of school closures most teachers will not have time to be making checklists of who has completed what. They’ll want to know you’re ok from a safeguarding perspective, but honestly that’s all they’ve got time for.

Don’t forget that most teachers are working parents too, they will understand.

I don't care what the DfE expects or the school expects. I know what I expect of myself and that is doing the best I can for my child. They're OUR kids and this is on us, in my opinion.

One is old enough that they follow live lessons/tasks reasonably independently but I sit with them while I work (full time 9 - 5 from home) in case they need to ask any quick Qs (or write them down if I'm in a meeting/zoom!) They could email their teachers but the response wasn't always immediate. The younger one didn't have timetabled lessons in the same way last lockdown so played a lot during the day and we did tasks in the evenings and at the weekend. It just changed the shape of their week a bit, but we got the important stuff done. We also continued to read every night as we always do, and some of the 'playing' was screen-based educational(ish) stuff. I contacted the PE teacher early and said we wouldn't be doing any of the sports tasks set but would be going out for a walk together every lunchtime and they said thats fine, they just wanted to know the kids were moving for the sake of their health. We skipped out a lot of art because my kids are shit at it and hate it. There are ways of making it work, but not because you're going to get in trouble but because you want to.

I think there's this weird perception that children are learning from 9 - 3:30 at school every day and then when that's not replicated at home people panic and get angry.

I don’t think anyone can enforce it. We will be doing what we can if/when primary schools close. I cannot sufficiently flex my work to be able to do hours a day. Probably concentrate on reading, writing and numbers.

@tappitytaptap

I don’t think anyone can enforce it. We will be doing what we can if/when primary schools close. I cannot sufficiently flex my work to be able to do hours a day. Probably concentrate on reading, writing and numbers.

Very sensible.

@Timeturnerplease

Trust me, in the event of school closures most teachers will not have time to be making checklists of who has completed what. They’ll want to know you’re ok from a safeguarding perspective, but honestly that’s all they’ve got time for.

Don’t forget that most teachers are working parents too, they will understand.

I can't speak for primary school but as PA to the head of teaching and learning in a secondary school I have to say we did exactly what you describe.

It was a gargantuan task but allowed us to provide additional support for the families who needed it, both academically and pastorally, and also highlighted a very small number of child protection/safeguarding issues.

Tbf our school culture is very much 'belt and braces' and I'd imagine most primaries will be more relaxed. You can only do your best but do keep communicating with your kids' school as they will (certainly should) want to do their best to support you.

@MintyCedric That’s great that your secondary could do that, but in a small village primary we simply don’t have anywhere near the capacity for that.

@Timeturnerplease

Trust me, in the event of school closures most teachers will not have time to be making checklists of who has completed what. They’ll want to know you’re ok from a safeguarding perspective, but honestly that’s all they’ve got time for.

Don’t forget that most teachers are working parents too, they will understand.

I don't think this is right, as far as I know we're obliged to keep some sort of a register of who is "attending" online schooling either by uploading work, speaking to somebody on the phone or attending an online session. In our (small 1 form entry primary) every teacher will have a register and will tick off each day that a child engages in some way. That's not to be used as a tool to cause trouble for parents btw, we do understand but if we know a child isn't engaging then we can try to help in some way.

They’ll want to know you’re ok from a safeguarding perspective, but honestly that’s all they’ve got time for
Last time, in the spring lockdown, our school didn’t even have time for safeguarding checks. Despite having around 20 children maximum in every day (out of 300 on roll), they didn’t have time (or just couldn’t be bothered) to do any welfare checks for the majority of children. My child was vulnerable and despite being on the list for weekly check ins, we had no contact for 7 weeks until I complained. Luckily, I haven’t heard of any safeguarding issues resulting from this, but the headteacher would have blood on her hands if something had happened to one of her pupils. We were desperate for help and got nothing. Not all schools are equal in how they have handled the pandemic and school closures. Lots of emails from teachers with photos of them playing with their own dc and having fun in the garden and extending their own hobbies. Twitter feed full of key worker children having a lovely time doing crafts and forest school activities. But everyone else was left to fend for themselves.

I am so relieved we are no longer part of that school and hopefully the one dd now attends will do much better.

@ChristmasinJune your school might keep a record of who is engaging, but I know many parents who submitted no work to school, thinking it would trigger some kind of call and check in and got nothing. My vulnerable child submitted one piece of work through the whole of lockdown (In April). We had no contact from school from May till the last week of term In July. They didn’t give a monkeys if pupils were doing Any of the work set.

So sorry that was your experience @Maryann1975 I know School’s were extremely variable in the first lockdown. If we have to have another full school shut down there are now much clearer expectations and School’s have had time to prepare and communicate procedures to staff so in theory provision should be much better this time around.

My dd has now changed schools and my experience with the new school (Ds has been there for 3 years) during the last lockdown was fantastic. Regular check ins by phone from tutor, Set everyone on oak academy after Easter, teams lessons up and running from half term onwards. I could not fault them at all, so I know there are some excellent examples of good schools out there (What is frustrating is that some of the staff from the other school have children at the excellent school, so should have been taking good practice back with them, it’s just no one was bothered enough to carry it through).

Key workers who can WFH should be doing their share in regards to home schooling, key worker office jobs are some of the most flexible and the definition of key worker is extremely broad indeed.

I don't plan on stressing myself out supervising home schooling around my full time (not KW but my job and income is to TO ME and also the economy as I pay a ton of tax). I'll do what I can but any grief from the school will be met with derision.

The rules have now changed for schools in respect of remote provision, so hopefully parents who saw little work being provided in the first lockdown will see an improvement this term.

One thing the local primaries found on assessing pupils on return to school in September that most children were on target where reading was concerned, but writing, spelling and maths had taken a real hit, even though work had been provided, so I assume many parents were not comfortable helping their children with maths and spelling, and writing wasn't always encouraged, probably down to an excessive use of screens. Children also don't tend to see their parents modelling writing.