Second vaccine appointment cancelled

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I work in healthcare. I was due to have my second Pfizer vaccine next week, but I've just been informed that it's been cancelled.
Now, I understand the bigger picture, it means more supplies. Therefore more people can get their first dose, but...
does this compromise the "winning formula" of the Pfizer? Ie two doses 21-28 days apart? Potentially rendering all the first dose Pfizer recipients useless if they don't receive it for a longer period...
plus, I have volunteered to be a vaccinator. One of the provisos of the role is that you need to have received both doses. This will either mean I cannot help out now until March, or they change the rules. Personally as high risk, I would be a little more hesitant volunteering...
Of course the great public health demand is more important, I'm just a bit concerned that this new approach to Pfizer is concerning...

Wonder how long ppl will be willing to be fucked about while they play at being Dr Bunsen Honeydew

Hmmmmm. Hearing lots about this and regardless of what the top cats are saying.....1, scientific evidence regarding delaying second dose by 12 weeks is non existent despite what the chief meds are fobbing the public off with. 2, Legally if you consented to a vaccine to be given a second dose within 21 days as directed by manufacturers the NHS are legally obliged to fulfil this or you can take a legal case against them for brace of consent or misguiding you into signing consent under false pretence! 3, The chief medics are spouting out false evidence regarding efficacy for delivery of vaccine outside of approved guidance. They could find a huge collective lawsuit in their shoulders . They are also making false statements about shortages of vaccines. This has been confirmed by manufacturers of both Pfizer and Astra vaccines as false. The uk are more interested in pushing the Oxford vaccine as it’s cheaper and easier to distribute ( financial reasons in delaying vaccine ). It’s clear this is a government driven strategy and not a public health one. All these new hospitals and wonderful builders but due to years of cutbacks in nhs Karma has come back to haunt them. Threaten legal action and you will get you jab with 3 weeks.legally they haven’t a legal to stand on mucking with peoples lives! A disgrace

Legal action will be taken . Breach of consent.

I think the 12 week gap is clinging to hope that within those 12 weeks enough HCP/Army Personnel/ well meaning volunteers who fancy it ( please not!) , will somehow appear to cope with the demand.

@viques I am a well meaning vaccinator volunteer (if I can cope with the forms!). Will I not be suitable? What qualifications do I need?

@ancientgran

Maybe Lizzie Toberty needs to find out that plenty of over 80s haven't had any vaccination yet. Some protection for all of them should be a priority so should protection for those in care homes.

Maybe Dr Katrina Farrell should consider that health workers weren't in the first tier for vaccinations, that was for the elderly and their carers in care homes. Perhaps she could explain what she did to raise concerns about getting her first vaccination before people who were supposedly ahead of her in the queue.

How was this allowed to happen - that Dr Farrell was given her vaccine before the people who should have had it first? This needs to be looked into.

Professor Martin Hibberd of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, has said:

“The science has been of a very high standard for the vaccine trials, and it is highly frustrating that this is now being ignored. We do not know how the vaccine will perform with an increased gap between the injections, and we do not know how protective a single injection is going to be over the longer term. So why take the risk?”

BBCONE the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept in very specific conditions and literally can only be moved a set number of times, which has made it logistically hard to deliver. My trust (possibly all Wales?) is giving this out in large distribution centres where it would logistically be hard to have large numbers of older, frailer people moving in and out of whilst keeping them and possibly their care givers safe. So we are vaccinating front line health care professionals and care home workers whilst planning a large scale vaccination of those over 80 from Monday with the Oxford vaccine which can be stored for 6 months in normal fridges and easily be transported to care homes/by GPs. It's about working the best way with the resources we have so not one single dose is wasted and everyone is kept safe.

@ExCwmbranDweller It can be done though can't it? How come the Chelsea Pensioners could get it with full TV cover but anytown old people's home couldn't? Where there's a will there's a way.

How about the non patient facing NHS staff who have had it when frontline staff in the same hospital haven't?

Unfortunately not everyone who has the greatest need to be kept safe is being kept safe.

I don't want to have arguments with anyone but I do want to help by giving information that might help everyone understand so:

It's all a game of trying to help the maximum amount of people and waste the least vaccine possible. From tomorrow with the Oxford the over 80's are going to be the main priority and this will be really visible. I have a huge difficulty with all the televised vaccines because they don't show any of the reality. Our 'first' lady was already in hospital. As it stands the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at very specific temperatures for exact amounts of time and can be moved, I think, a maximum of 5 times, most of which are used up getting it to the hospitals involved. This is affecting how it can be distributed and my trust specifically feels we are best placed doing large centres where mobile people can come and queue up at safe distances.

Where the vaccine is about to time out (one reconstituted vial lasts an hour) rather than throw the dose away the nearest unvaccinated person will do so only then non patient facing staff will be given it. So not taking away from an over 80, literally saving it from the bin. Sometimes we have non attending people and their vaccine will first have another close by health professional found for it but if that's not possible and we have minutes left then our clerks will be vaccinated to save wastage.

No system is perfect but we are trying to do the best by the maximum number of people possible within constraints.

Where the vaccine is about to time out (one reconstituted vial lasts an hour) rather than throw the dose away the nearest unvaccinated person will do so only then non patient facing staff will be given it. So not taking away from an over 80, literally saving it from the bin. Sometimes we have non attending people and their vaccine will first have another close by health professional found for it but if that's not possible and we have minutes left then our clerks will be vaccinated to save wastage. So are the reports of execs in a trust being offered it before frontline staff wrong? I believe unions are involved in that one.

Re moving the vaccine I heard one of the vaccine experts saying the restriction on number of movements is after it is thawed out so why would getting it to the hospital use up the five movements? Or was that expert wrong?

Again can you explain why it was possible to take the vaccine to the Chealsea Pensioners and a handful of other homes?

Why aren't people offered standby appointments? People who are eligible for the vaccine but not at the top of the list yet who would be prepared to attend at short notice?

I'm happy to chat about all that I know but not if I feel like you are holding me personally responsible as I say, I want to educate to help but not argue with anyone. I work out of one of the mass vaccination centres and can only tell you what I believe to be the facts. I am very very far down the food chain.

There are no execs where I am so can't answer for that. I didn't organise the Chelsea pensioners so can't answer for that either but sounds like a bit of marketing to make people aware and to encourage uptake. Where were they being vaccinated, at a centre or where they live?

We've been told it's about movements not whether this is frozen/unfrozen but we are the last stop for ours so can't take it out to care homes etc. We are far from the centre of anywhere though so probably not the same as London.

Technically the vaccine isn’t licensed at all. It’s had emergency approval but it is still an unlicensed vaccine whether you get the two doses at the correct time or not. It’s the first thing they check with you when you are given it that you are aware the vaccine is unlicensed

Had mine. Nobody asked me if I was aware of that. I don't care it's unlicensed at all, but nobody asked me if I was or was not aware. (I actually wasn't until this post)

This is the way I understand it.

The first dose gives good immunity to serious illness requiring hospitalisation.

The more people that get vaccinated, the less risk for EVERYONE because the hospitals will not be overwhelmed for a prolonged period.

Individually having one injection makes it highly unlikely you'll end up critically ill in hospital. The virologists have said that a vaccine stays protective for a longtime and if they do lose efficacy, it's over years not months. The second dose just tops up and extends efficacy.

It's FAR better (population wide) to have twice as many people vaccinated.

The efficacy of 1 dose is reported from 56-80%. This is well within the acceptable range for a vaccine.

Pfizer havent said it's NOT effective, they have just said it hasn't been trialled. Legally that's all they can do really

But you have to take notice of all previous information about vaccines that the scientists have

@ExCwmbranDweller

We've been told it's about movements not whether this is frozen/unfrozen but we are the last stop for ours so can't take it out to care homes etc. We are far from the centre of anywhere though so probably not the same as London

My friend is NHS too, that's what she told me when I queried the fact it can be out of the specialty freezers 6 days so I didn't understand why they couldn't get it to care homes etc.

@ExCwmbranDweller. Your post of 12:29. I REALLY hope that's how it works in most centres!! Getting it into people & not being wasted is brilliant. I don't care whose arm it goes into if it can't go into the first tier person, anyone's arm benefits us all!!

(Not because I think it transmission, but because it potentially prevents them need to use the NHS & leaves beds free for others! Going in the bin helps no one).

I'm really pissed off by this - and I'm completely for the vaccines. I hate that there's a risk in the UK, however small, of being offered the Pfizer vaccine then the AstraZeneca one, when there's no data to suggest that it's an effective approach. I also think it's absurd to cancel people's second appointments when public trust is so so crucial to the rollout process.

^ to clarify, I'm referring to the mixing and match of vaccines, which hasn't been ruled out.

@Legaliq

Legal action will be taken . Breach of consent.

What contract do you think was breached? It has always been the case that 2nd dose could be administered after more than 21 days. And not just in the UK. It would be impossible and not a good idea to guarantee that it would always be provided after 21 days.

Where the vaccine is about to time out (one reconstituted vial lasts an hour) The UK Gov website says six hours not one.

[quote ancientgran]@ExCwmbranDweller It can be done though can't it? How come the Chelsea Pensioners could get it with full TV cover but anytown old people's home couldn't? Where there's a will there's a way.

How about the non patient facing NHS staff who have had it when frontline staff in the same hospital haven't?

Unfortunately not everyone who has the greatest need to be kept safe is being kept safe.[/quote]
Because Chelsea has a fully functioning hospital wing, so I assume they had the equipment to allow for this to happen, unlike most care homes, which are converted old houses.

@LostInWales

Re: Vaccinator positions - I've been working as a vaccinator for two weeks now, when I started I hadn't had a single dose and was expected to apply for a slot like any other health care worker. As Pfizer can 'time out' and we are 100% making sure no doses are lost I got my first vaccination my first day when we had one extra at the end. Everyone is working so incredibly hard to make sure the maximum people are vaccinated every day and not a drop of vaccine goes to waste.

Again, that's good to hear.

Others have posted that they haven't been allowed the vaccine & it has been wasted. I hope they were trolls or it's not wide spread idiocy.

I had my first covid jab on 20th Dec and was scheduled to get the second on 10th January. I've just had an email cancelling and to advise that they would be in touch at some point to reschedule. I'm not surprised but am disgusted. I haven't consented to a revised dosing schedule. They have absolutely no scientific data to back this up with.

The roll out of vaccines into care homes started in England before Christmas. This follows test on how best to move the vaccine safely without it being wasted. Almost all homes will be visited by GP hubs not hospital hubs. There are far more GP hubs than hospital hubs. It’s moved in refrigeration to the home and yes it’s a time limited exercise. The hubs needed extra equipment to do this which was supplied in the week up to Christmas and beyond. The homes also need to prepare, consent and organising the layout. They also need to ensure there are no outbreaks before the visit.

The virologists have said that a vaccine stays protective for a longtime and if they do lose efficacy, it's over years not months

Not sure about this at all in terms of the covid vaccines. No one knows how long they will last even with both doses.

The virologists have said that a vaccine stays protective for a longtime and if they do lose efficacy, it's over years not months

Do you have a source for that? I would doubt most scientists would make claims like that without the concrete data to back it up.