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Shielding & school return

77 replies

Littlemiss74 · 30/12/2020 23:23

I’ve been sent another shielding email so am wfh & DH is doing all food shopping or getting online where we can.

I was convinced with rates as high as they are, we are in Surrey tier 4, that return to school would be delayed. I’m getting more & more anxious now about my dd 9 returning to primary school next week. It just doesn’t make sense to me how they can send me a shielding letter which is alarming enough, only to then be told oh but you’re kids still need to go to school! DS is at secondary so not an immediate concern.

How are other shielders feeling about their dc’s going back? Also, are school staff who have shielding letters expected to return too? I realise I am lucky I can wfh. I’m finding my anxiety is increasing & I can’t think about anything else.

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CountessDracula · 31/12/2020 00:16

I should add DD has been amazing, properly shielding for the first 4 months and since then only seeing friends outside school for walks, many of her close friends have had covid but she has been so careful that she hasn't. I don't feel she can avoid this new strain so am doing this to take the pressure off her.

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 00:20

Ooh anonymous I'd appreciate advice as thats opposite what our school tells us. (🙄) . And they say they're pushing fines. Or at least did in the term before xmas.

If I knew I was on safer ground it would possibly affect what I write!

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 00:26

The local council site says theres no right to appeal, and the school can request a fine (which our school says they put every absence through) after 5 days absence/etc which it will be.

So if school put it through should I still get in touch with local council as well? Do they ever go against the schools ?

Sorry for all the questions.

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 00:27

Sorry but another question - how long would it be before I lost my place?

Understandingnotignorance · 31/12/2020 00:31

CEV are 4th in line to get the vaccine so I really don't think you would lose your place before getting this. Its quite a drawn out process and from what the EWO anonymous said on here, they are using their judgement on the whole fining/prosecution process and it seems many are reluctant to prosecute parents in genuinely clinically vulnerable situation.

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 00:50

Im CV officially rather than ECV so been acting as if as I have multiple CV conditions. Im group 6, but Im so hoping ot rolls out quicker now with the new vaccine.

Thanks for the information. I think we will keep home and face it when it happens. And expect a fine...

My daughter is very social and will miss school for which I feel so bad. But I cant see how it is safe for me for her to go.

Understandingnotignorance · 31/12/2020 01:03

@RememberSelfCompassion Even if the least you do is keep her at home for the time being and review it according to if cases fall as a result of these measures its safer than sending her immediately after the holidays where families have been mixing and out and about coupled with this new strain.

Understandingnotignorance · 31/12/2020 01:05

I completely get your dilemma at wanting to do the best for your child and feeling guilt but sadly the bigger picture is safeguarding yourself which will ultimately be in your child's greatest interest.

anonymous1020 · 31/12/2020 08:18

@RememberSelfCompassion are those questions for me? Yes, don't agree with parents being fined in situations where they have someone genuinely CEV in the home. I am happy to answer questions. Unhappy that all the government has allowed for in guidance is where the child themselves is CEV.

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 08:21

Ah yes sorry for you. I got exciting having someone Who Knows Things on the thread. I think because I'm CV (but I have multiple CV conditions) rather than ECV it might be different?

Sorry anyway I'm highjacking OPs thread that was ECV so should stop.

Thankyou and goodluck OP. I think we are keeping her off.

Littlemiss74 · 31/12/2020 08:52

@RememberSelfCompassion it’s no problem - we are all in this together so ask away!

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anonymous1020 · 31/12/2020 09:09

No worries.

The school can issue you an invoice I guess but if you don't pay it there is nothing they can do without passing it over to the local authority. Under the education act it's only the local authority that can prosecute for non school attendance (which is the next step after an unpaid fine). So a school issuing you a fine is basically unenforceable. A headteacher has the discretion whether to authorise any absence or not and we can advise and guide them in this decision but we can't overrule it. But any legal action is solely the decision of the LA, having said that we wouldn't usually prosecute if the school didn't want that. So if your school are saying they issue fines I would suggest having a chat to your LA and asking them what the process is. You could also check the schools attendance policy.

You cannot lose your place just from being absent. Many schools believe that they can take children off the roll after 4 weeks absence however this isn't actually lawful in accordance with the (statutory) guidance and they can only do this if they have also reported the pupil missing to the LA, and BOTH the school and LA have failed to locate the pupil. In your case this wouldn't apply as if they tried to locate you they would find you at your home address and you would say you were keeping the child off until the scary pandemic is less serious.
However, this does depend slightly on how "on it" your local LA are with the guidance and some may not challenge a school withdrawing a pupil incorrectly. At a later date you could quote the DFE statutory guidance at the school as if they take pupils off roll unlawfully then if you sued, they would be acting outside of the law however this would be a difficult challenge for a parent to take up with a school.

For anyone, my best advice now is to speak with your schools headteacher and be honest about the reasons you don't want your child in school. They may be willing to authorise a period of absence, we suggest putting an end date on it so it doesn't drag on indefinitely. Would also suggest sending a copy of a shielding letter belonging to a family member of this is the reason you don't want the child to return to school.

If the school authorise the absence, fine.

If they don't, it is only really meaningful if the LA are considering a fine. Most LAs are not issuing fines to parents where there is a genuine concern at the moment.

Finally my advice would be to also remember that the fine is like a speeding fine, an opportunity to pay a fixed penalty notice without going to court. You have the option to not pay the fine, and be prosecuted for the offence of non school attendance instead. This sounds very scary indeed, but would be your chance to go to court and present your reasons to a bench of impartial magistrates.

That's of course if the LA wanted to pursue with court, given the huge costs incurred to them. That's also if the LA solicitors agreed it was in the public interest. And if you did get as far as court, having been present in many many court hearings for non school attendance, I don't believe that magistrates are going to throw the book at people keeping their child off in a badly managed pandemic when there is someone clinically vulnerable in the home, or even if there isn't as well. My best guess that if anyone was prosecuted the outcome is most likely to be a conditional discharge for those cases genuinely with a good reason (CEV person at home in the house). However it would be prudent to be able to prove to the court that you had attempted to speak with the head teacher and LA first and gain their authorisation of the absence, so I would suggest doing everything in writing.

To be very honest I highly doubt there will be many prosecutions if any.

I hope this helps.

anonymous1020 · 31/12/2020 09:13

Sorry, yes absolutely we can override the school requesting we fine. I'm interested your school saying they put through every 5 day absence for a fine - that sounds like bluster to me.

We can and do override, I was once sent a request to fine a family who went on a term time holiday shortly after they received a terminal leukaemia diagnosis / prognosis for one of their children.

Bagelsandbrie · 31/12/2020 09:18

I am in a similar situation. I am CEV and ds aged 8 has autism and attends complex needs school. He doesn’t do well at all having long periods of time off school as it makes it even harder when he does go back - changes of routine etc. Plus the nature of my illness - lupus, Addison’s etc- means I need rest and downtime and I’m not getting that at all with ds at home. Plus I am stuck in an odd situation where dh works in healthcare and dd aged 17 is doing her A levels ...! So both of them out of the house mixing with people. I feel really stuck with it all. I think I will probably send ds back, at least being at complex needs school he only has 6 in his class and 4 teachers. I am so torn about it all. It all just seems so contradictory. I just want the vaccine ASAP.

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 09:20

Anonymous thankyou so much for all this. I really appreciate you taking the time to tell me.

Wow that poor family. I'm glad you overrode that. I suspect my school would do the same issuing it. 🙄

I will email the head and see where it goes. Ive looked the council site and it says there's no right of appeal once a fines issued - so will email them too if I can if I get one! But I'll try to stop getting worried. I am so rule driven the idea of being fined by school is horrible.

bahumbug2020 · 31/12/2020 09:20

Haven't they already announced a delayed return to school??!

RememberSelfCompassion · 31/12/2020 09:23

Oh Bagel that does sound so hard to weigh up. Its frightening isnt it. Wishing all yoir family good health x

anonymous1020 · 31/12/2020 09:24

No there is no right of an appeal to a fine once it is issued that is correct. But you don't have to pay, you can choose to have your case heard in court instead if you prefer. If the LA has the funds to prosecute you. And if their solicitors agree a prosecution is in the public interest. And if they have the staff to actually do all the prep for these prosecutions. Ooops, did I really say that?

Littlemiss74 · 31/12/2020 09:26

@bahumbug2020 only for secondary schools

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PastMyBestBeforeDate · 31/12/2020 14:11

@anonymous1020 thanks for all this. It's very scary to embark on this route.
If you pay the fine but you don't send your DC back, what happens?

Bagelsandbrie · 31/12/2020 14:45

@RememberSelfCompassion

Oh Bagel that does sound so hard to weigh up. Its frightening isnt it. Wishing all yoir family good health x
Thank you, you too.
anonymous1020 · 31/12/2020 15:25

@PastMyBestBeforeDate in theory it would start again and you would again be contacted about unauthorised absences if you continued to clock them up, they may escalate past a fine but like I said before I really doubt it.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 31/12/2020 15:29

Thanks @anonymous1020.

PandemicPavalova · 31/12/2020 17:24

I guess it's a case of initially treading water.

The way I see it, unless you really can rely on the head, you start clocks ticking straight away by announcing intentions rather than having illness and then stringing that out... By which time we may all be in a lock down?

Littlemiss74 · 31/12/2020 18:33

Thank you for all the advice @anonymous1020 and everyone else. I have discussed at length with DH and have now emailed the head to say we would like to keep her home next week and review at end of the week. It’s not going to be easy as I am wfh and DS is not back until 18th and will not do home learning unless we physically sit on him😄. Luckily DH is around to help out. We will just have to muddle through as best we can. Will be interesting to see what response I get from the Head, although realise it’s unlikely to be on New Year’s Eve! Here’s wishing everyone a significantly better 2021!😊

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