Schools should stay open for Years 11 and 13 or many are doomed

[Coronadisasterclub]

They've had such a terrible run of things and if they don't go back after Christmas I think GCSEs and A'Levels are absolutely doomed. They're barely going to cover the course and many DC are at an all time low. I am really worried about what the long term consequences of this could be well after Coronavirus is a distant memory.

There are thousands of people left with this long COVID, it has and will continue to ruin potentially the rest of their lives. Not to mention the many who’ve died. Coronavirus will never been a ‘distant memory’. Whatever people think, our kids WILL catch up and get through this.
I get so angry that people are STILL putting education above lives and health it’s rediculous after this many deaths.

Although doing nothing from March onwards wasn’t great.

didn’t do much work at all doing lockdown.

National lockdown was 23rd March. And there was no expectation for any children to do nothing from them until the summer.

Year 10 and 12 were invited back before the summer, but for those who didn't return until September, this still represents a maximum of fifteen weeks not sitting in a classroom.

There was plenty for them to be learning and getting on with from wherever they were sitting, and for those who needed extra support, school staff worked flat out to provide it. Most kids got on with it and are able to work more independently now.

If your children did nothing during lockdown, that's on you.

I think it would be good to keep years 10-13 in school/college if possible

@FoxinaScarf

Year 10s too. I don't know why Yr 10s are never mentioned. I think they are the most disadvantaged year group of all as that is the year the bulk of the GCSE syllabus is covered. GCSEs start in Yr 9 so the current Yr 10s missed the last half of Yr 9 plus a lot of this current Yr 10, they are at a real disadvantage compared to all the other year cohorts. Yr 10s should b prioritised.

Try applying that logic to those who were year 12 last year and now in year 13 sitting A levels. Worse off I would say But it's not a race to the bottom

@SaltyAF

If your children did nothing during lockdown, that's on you.

This.

Why are so many people adamant that thousands of children 'missed' their education? Undoubtedly, some teenagers won't have tried very hard at home, with some having genuine difficulties and reasons, but I'm perplexed as to how many parents on this site will openly admit they allowed their children to opt out for months!

I don't know of a single teacher who didn't remain responsible for the classes put on their timetables in September 2019, and wasn't required to deliver the curriculum, set work for students, and mark it.

Well you obviously are not at a shite school with a few (not all) shite teachers.
My DS's (yr 11) maths teacher didn't even turn up for most online lessons. It was 3 weeks into the first lockdown (after I complained) before he even set any work for them. After that it was one worksheet for each lesson
My other yr 11 DS (different school) was set loads of work but none of it was marked, so pretty pointless really.
Not to mention the self isolation cycle going on and on during the last few months where kids/teachers were dropping like flies.
So yeah my kids have missed their education and I dread what their GCSE grades will be.

As for 'they have finished the GCSE course now', ha ha what a joke. Some posters on here really have no clue what is going on in some schools.

Teachers on MN (unfortunately) do not reflect real life, certainly not at my DC's schools anyway.

We are lucky in that my daughter has an unconditional offer for a specialised college for next year but she doesn't realise that and I want her to cover her back and get as good results as possible so she really really needs to be in school next week and studying properly for her GCSEs

They are not "doomed" - they are just all in the same difficult boat. When it comes to competing for college and university places those institutions will know what 2020/21 was like in secondary schools and will be taking this into account.

I think we need to try and be upbeat and keep their spirits up. They are not on the scrap heap - they have just been learning that life does not always go as planned and that they have to adapt - possibly not such a bad lesson maybe?

I think it is very important not to over-dramatize this - it has been difficult but they truly are not doomed. If that is the approach that parents take then they will feel doomed - if parents stay positive they can motivate them to get through this and learn from it.

my daughter has an unconditional offer for a specialised college for next year but she doesn't realise that - are you seriously not telling her this? I could not betray a DD's trust by keeping this from her.

@Mischance

They are not "doomed" - they are just all in the same difficult boat. When it comes to competing for college and university places those institutions will know what 2020/21 was like in secondary schools and will be taking this into account.

I think we need to try and be upbeat and keep their spirits up. They are not on the scrap heap - they have just been learning that life does not always go as planned and that they have to adapt - possibly not such a bad lesson maybe?

I think it is very important not to over-dramatize this - it has been difficult but they truly are not doomed. If that is the approach that parents take then they will feel doomed - if parents stay positive they can motivate them to get through this and learn from it.

Yes!

I really feel for my Y11 son. He has additional needs and has worked so hard since being in a mainstream school from Y7 (previously in a special school). Our long term aim was just for him to take his GCSEs but it really started to look like he may pass some too which is just amazing. He is still working hard a nd we are helping all we can but his specialist teachers are amazing and can work with him in a way that he can learn which we just don't have the skills for..

Luckily he has an unconditional offer at a sports college as he excels at his sport but I feel for him.

My year 10 is supposed to be taking 2 of her GCSE's a year early.The time off has affected her;in her mocks in November she only achieved grade 4's which is pretty poor for her;the teachers expected see a 7 or higher,this is literally messing up my kids education

My son is in his first year of college and it's a practical hands on course but it's all zoom lessons with a 4 hour class in the workshop once a fortnight.He was also supposed to start a 2 day a week work placement by now as part of the course and that's not happening either.He's getting nothing out of this course (which cost us a huge enrolment fee).He can't even leave and go after an apprenticeship either as again nothing is available due to Covid 19.

Also didn't mention my year 10 has had to do 2 stints of 2 weeks isolation since going back to school in September

@Woolff

The current Yr 11 and Yr 13 missed most of their Yr 10 and 12.

Why are so many people adamant that thousands of children 'missed' their education? Undoubtedly, some teenagers won't have tried very hard at home, with some having genuine difficulties and reasons, but I'm perplexed as to how many parents on this site will openly admit they allowed their children to opt out for months!

I don't know of a single teacher who didn't remain responsible for the classes put on their timetables in September 2019, and wasn't required to deliver the curriculum, set work for students, and mark it. If children were allowed to do nothing and need to be physically 'with' teachers to be safe and productive, something is hugely wrong.

Sorry @Woolff but you are being very naive. My youngest is in year 9 and on the autistic spectrum. She’s bright academically and attends a girls grammar. However her school provided NO online learning for a variety of reasons, they just piled on the work. Dd found this very difficult and stressful. I tried to support her but she didn’t want me to get involved. After a while she had completely disengaged.

Providing a few online resources is NOT the same as teaching.

So what was I supposed to to @Woolff?

No they will not be doomed! They can have teacher assessed grades and move on with their lives.

And yes I agree they are not doomed but many children have gaps in their learning. It’s not just as simple as ‘moving to online teaching’. For starters many children do not have their own devices. And provision from schools varies widely.

@Mischance

They are not "doomed" - they are just all in the same difficult boat. When it comes to competing for college and university places those institutions will know what 2020/21 was like in secondary schools and will be taking this into account.

I think we need to try and be upbeat and keep their spirits up. They are not on the scrap heap - they have just been learning that life does not always go as planned and that they have to adapt - possibly not such a bad lesson maybe?

I think it is very important not to over-dramatize this - it has been difficult but they truly are not doomed. If that is the approach that parents take then they will feel doomed - if parents stay positive they can motivate them to get through this and learn from it.

Agree with this. In school or online, exams or teacher assessments, my year 11 DD will cope with whatever it is. She's missed out on loads but there are some positives. She was so scatty but over this year has gradually improved her study skills and independence because she's had to. If a teacher hasn't set work or explained something she's had to find resources and teach herself. She is stressed right now though because she just needs to KNOW what's going to happen.

"Year 10 and 12 were invited back before the summer, but for those who didn't return until September, this still represents a maximum of fifteen weeks not sitting in a classroom."

My Y10 got 10 x 1 hour sessions - one for each GCSE subject - over 6 half days - when he was "invited" back to school.

"There was plenty for them to be learning and getting on with from wherever they were sitting, and for those who needed extra support, school staff worked flat out to provide it. Most kids got on with it and are able to work more independently now."

Er, no, tbh not the case. English basically said - read Macbeth. Incredibly poor, unstructured and erratic provision. No shade on the the teachers, who were also having a nightmare. And a significant proportion of children in the UK had no support, no bandwidth, no hardware , poor materials, no space, and little or no motivation.

And why we should possibly think that 14 - 16 year olds should be able to adequately teach themselves GCSEs during a global pandemic, is completely beyond me.

@SaltyAF

If your children did nothing during lockdown, that's on you.

How offensive (and wrong) to many parents. So you're the expert on ALL children and ALL schools are you?

@SaltyAF and @Itisasecret for what it's worth, I am a committed parent who values education very highly. But my Year 9 daughter's school did not provide any online learning. Instead they piled the work on but the work was either very difficult to do without having been taught the material, or of little educational value (eg making posters). English seemed to consist of writing poem after poem.

My dd is ASD and found it all very stressful. After a few weeks she switched off. I tried a variety of approaches - sitting with her (she didn't want me to), talking to her about how to manage the work effectively, encouraging her to email teachers for clarification (she wasn't keen on doing this and found it awkward). In the end I had to take a step back and hope she was doing something.

So do tell me how this was my fault or how I should have done it differently??

SaltyAF "If your children did nothing during lockdown, that's on you."

Your ignorance is astonishing. I worked 70 hour weeks to turn my business around. The alternative was letting it collapse.

Because of the need to transform my business and stay afloat, my 3 teenagers were left to their own devices. One did well. One (Asperger's) fell apart without the routine. The third refused to let me give her any help anyway and she floundered badly. She is Y11 so this all impacts on her GCSE success.

Maybe people who don't work, or those lucky enough to be furloughed, could provide education for their kids. Many of us couldn't.

@Woolff "Year 10 and 12 were invited back before the summer, but for those who didn't return until September, this still represents a maximum of fifteen weeks not sitting in a classroom."

Our school did not invite anyone back before September. My kids were off from March to September. Their yr 12 remote teaching was very patchy, seemed to depend on whether the individual teacher was technologically able or not, to deliver any online teaching.

Mostly it was read this, learn this on your own.

Fine if you have self motivated, academically able kids who can self-teach. Not so great for all the other kids who require more input into their learning.

I'm surprised that you think "only" missing a term's worth of teaching can easily be made up.

@TottiePlantagenet As I said then; fifteen weeks of school for those not brought back in. Not 'March to September', because that includes the Easter break, a Bank Holiday, May half term and the summer holiday.

That's how long the whole of the Autumn term just gone was. So in a core subject where I work, children saw (or didn't see between the end of March and the end of the academic year) their teacher for four periods a week. So sixty hours for a subject. I don't know how many of those hours you think are teachers just pouring information into children's heads or 'doing input' (which is rather like the idea of some teenagers that they can opt out in class, but come to after school 'intervention' and their attendance will magically guarantee imorovement) but the majority of those hours are instructions to read independently, to write extended pieces, to redraft with short specific focusses and guidance. In some classes, the teacher's time is taken up with dealing with poor behaviour, or working with a focus group (very able / low attaining / previous persistent absence for medical issues /SEN), whist others are expected to work on their own.

In sixth form, students are definitely expected to take some ownership and show initiative, and it's not looked upon kindly if they have gained a place, but won't work at home!

Education has never been so important as it was since Mar 2020.

@AnnaForbes

One did well. One (Asperger's) fell apart without the routine. The third refused to let me give her any help anyway and she floundered badly.

So yes you were maintaining your business, but there you have a tenth of what one teacher is dealing with in any given lesson. Thirty students who all have different needs.

As the one who did well shows, education was taking place and some strategies school put in place were working.

With extra support (not possible for teachers to physically do for you under national lockdown) the others could have had their own successes.

Working at your business or not, it is on you if you allowed them to do nothing. Put some routines and structure in place; you'd be up in arms if a school wouldn't for DC with Asperger's. Don't allow 'refusal' from a child with regards to their education. You'd expect class teachers to manage behaviour and not just give up on challenging children.

This is parenting, not education. Need for boundaries and encouragement don't disappear in the classroom, and teachers have a million things to do at once too. A parent shouldn't be the one who cares least about doing everything they can to make sure no child is left behind.