Sorry, another ‘is this allowed’

[BuffaloCauliflower]

It feels like a bit of a grey area/less usual circumstance they won’t have thought for specific guidance for, but wondered what people thought.

My primary age nephew doesn’t live with either of his parents, he mainly lives with one grandmother, and spends large chunks of every holiday with his other grandmother. He sees a parent at each house but they don’t live in those homes and they’re not his caregiver in either home, GMs are.

My DM (one of his grandmothers) asked could DN still go to other GMs this week as usual under the guidance, and I said no as there’s no travelling or staying away from home allowed. Both homes are in T4. But she said couldn’t it fall under ‘children being allowed to travel between both their parents homes’ rules which considering the circumstances actually seems logical? They are his two homes even if his parents don’t live there.

My DMs household is also my support bubble (child under 1) and I’m not sure if DN going between his two homes might break that bubble if he went? Or is that bubble still one household and he’s just moving between two households as other children do with their parents, one of whom might be in a single parent support bubble too?

Thanks all.

Oh, to add if helpful, though not relevant to what the law is, both GMs have had covid already.

I think the actual law is going to be hard to say. Do both grandparents have parental responsibility? In the spirit of the law though it seems ok.

I think your support bubble arrangement would be unaffected though.

If they are both registered as his caregivers then yes it’s fine. If it’s just an informal arrangement with him being passed between family then no.

The rule is children can move between parents & guardians homes if separated.
I'm guessing the grandma he lives with is his guardian, but the one he visits isn't - so he can move between his usual home and his two parents' homes, but not visit other relatives.

Regardless of the formality of the arrangement, if he usually travels between both homes and in doing so sees his actual parents, I would argue that he is traveling between his parents' homes as with any other separated couple.

There are a few reasons this can be justified. Not just because he lives in a separated household, but also because foster children's contact arrangements are allowed, as are contact visits for the placement of children entering into an adoption. So the law has been amended to allow for the maintaining or forging of parental relationships, which is exactly what is happening when the nephew visits both grandparents.

Logically, this has to be fine.

Yes this is allowed. The law says this about leaving your home in Tier 4:

(13) Exception 9 is that it is reasonably necessary for P to leave or be outside P’s home —

(a) for the purposes of arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and a child where the child does not live in the same household as their parents or one of their parents;

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A/paragraph/2

and this about indoor gatherings ...

(18) Exception 13 is that the gathering is reasonably necessary—

(a) for the purposes of arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children where the children do not live in the same household as their parents or one of their parents;

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A/part/2

As long as it's 'for the purposes of' contact with parents it doesn't matter whose house it is.

Also:

“parent” of a child includes any person who is not a parent of the child but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/regulation/2

Thanks all. Erring towards ok then? Neither grandparent legally has parental responsibility legally, though they should (bit of an area of frustration for me) but this living arrangement has existed pretty much his entire life and both GMs are his guardians in all the ways that count. He may see other parent at other GMs but it’s never guaranteed. The parent he sees at my DMs is in and out but interacts with him more as a sibling than a parent. It would be moving between his two main caregivers.

Erring towards ok then?

More than that, it's completely within the law and it still would be even if the parents were not involved at all and he was just moving between the two grans.

As you say, he would be moving between his two main caregivers and the definition of 'parent' in these regulations includes 'any person ... who has care of the child'. It's not necessary for them to have parental responsibility.

Thanks @LangClegsInSpace I was typing my message before your last and didn’t see the clarification around caregiver. Good news.