Are foreign nationals allowed to fly home to visit?

[oxcat1]

Travelling from a Tier 4 area. Plans to go home 02/01. To me the government advice looks firmly like you can't but this person is convinced they will have no problems based on previous friends travelling to visits home in lockdown 2.

Ryanair will fly anyone wherever they want to go I’d say haha they won’t be stopping ya they just want ££££

[quote notimagain]The traveller's nationality is irrelevant for travel in the UK,tThe rules are based on where somebody lives, not the passport they are carrying.

International travel to or from a Tier 4 area: If you live in a Tier 4 area, you can only travel internationally - or within the UK - where you first have a legally permitted reason to leave home.

www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home#travel[/quote]
Absolutely correct. She is a UK resident in a Tier 4 area so is bound by UK regulations and does not have a legally permitted reason to travel internationally. Her nationality, the airline rules and whether Spain would let her in are all irrelevant.

If Spain let her in the U.K. might not let her back? Things change rapidly and it’ll only take a mass outbreak in Spain for the U.K. to say no visitors/flights from there.

Ultimately, the issue is whether COVID can determine whether the person its infecting is a Spanish national, or just a visitor to Spain. The answer is, no it cant! Your friend could be infected, carry the virus into Spain, infect their family, then return to the UK. Surely this is just a shitty thing to do?

@Heyahun

I’m not sure either I want to go to Ireland! My first baby is due soon And I want to go home for a visit

My husband and I are thinking we will just go anyway and stay for a long time! Like a few months even - they can’t stop us coming back if we are citizens I’m sure - like technically we could say we are being repatriated?

The Irish government website (dfa.ie) says:

In accordance with the criteria announced by the Government on 20 December, travel to Ireland from Britain is currently only permitted if you are transiting en route to Ireland, or if you are a long-term Irish resident who has been in Britain for a short stay and needs to return.

Surely this is just a shitty thing to do?

Dunno but it certainly sounds like another instance of a person trying to find a seam that they can exploit in the guidance...

@Mistigri if you’re in a country, you’re subject to their laws. If the UK says no one who lives here can leave except for xyz reason, nationality is irrelevant.

[quote oxcat1]@NewLockdownNewMe: were the rules during lockdown 2 more lenient regarding internal travel/foreign nationals? I didn't look at that time, but this friend is using the experiences of others during lockdown 2 as evidence this will be permitted [/quote]
I believe this is the first time that international travel has been specifically mentioned in the “stay at home” order.

What's the address on her Spanish national ID card?

Only a few days ago I flew to Spain from the country I live and work in. I haven't lived in Spain for 6 years but my ID card still states my parents' address as my residence.

Each region has its own rules, but most of them won't let you in unless you have some document (ID card or city council registration) that states your address is in fact in region XYZ.

If her ID has a Spanish address, she'll be fine. If it says UK, it will not be so easy.

Forgot to say, I'm not sure how/if the UK authorities would police her travelling abroad. Is there a law that prevents international travel for leisure purposes if you're in Tier 4?

Spain has closed its internal borders (between regions) so when you try to drive over the border or take a flight whilst in the equivalent of Tier 4, you're asked for proof of why that journey is necessary. This has meant many people can't see their families at Christmas because they live in a different region (think over county lines).

I'm flying back home next week and I have a letter from my employer saying I need to return for work, I'll probably have to show that at the airport before boarding. I don't think the UK is doing anything along these lines?

Is there a law that prevents international travel for leisure purposes if you're in Tier 4?

This is where the lawyers pitch up and argue about "rules", "guidance", "should" and "must", FWIW according to

www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

"If you live in a Tier 4 area, you can only travel internationally - or within the UK - where you first have a legally permitted reason to leave home."

As far as paperwork goes this time around din't know how it is being policed....there was a paperwork/ID requirement for those leaving the UK, e.g. the likes of essential workers during (the general) lockdown 1 and I was checked on leaving the UK, prior to boarding flights, on a couple of occasions..not sure if or how well it is being policed now, it's tricky given not everybody in the UK is travelling from a Tier 4 area.

Absolutely correct. She is a UK resident in a Tier 4 area so is bound by UK regulations and does not have a legally permitted reason to travel internationally. Her nationality, the airline rules and whether Spain would let her in are all irrelevant.

^^ this

The question (from her point of view) is whether she’s going to get stopped and/or fined. I’ve no idea. It could be that she’s able to leave the country without any issues. But the rules are very clear: she’s not allowed to without permission.

@EileenGC a friend drove from Madrid to Rioja yesterday. Nobody stopped her.
Another one today from Barcelona to Girona. Again nobody stopping her.

Seems like they’re not stopping anyone.

@EasterIssland Madrid has not fully closed their border. You are allowed to leave the city to go visit family, even if they live in another region. Barcelona and Girona are within the same autonomous community, so you don't cross any border driving from one to the other.

As I said in my post, depends which area in Spain. They certainly are stopping people where I am. My dad was stopped every day on his way to/from work last week. This week he hasn't left the province so no border checks. Depends on the rules in each region.

My friend's partner is Spanish, lives and works in London and flew back to Spain for Christmas yesterday

[quote EileenGC]@EasterIssland Madrid has not fully closed their border. You are allowed to leave the city to go visit family, even if they live in another region. Barcelona and Girona are within the same autonomous community, so you don't cross any border driving from one to the other.

As I said in my post, depends which area in Spain. They certainly are stopping people where I am. My dad was stopped every day on his way to/from work last week. This week he hasn't left the province so no border checks. Depends on the rules in each region. [/quote]
From the 23rd you can only move for visiting family. My friend who has gone to Girona was meant to go to canarias but as she doesn’t have family there she had to cancel it. My friends are carrying a paper with them in case police stops them that proofs they’re driving di they have family.

Where I’m from (Basque Country) they only opened yesterday to the other areas but can only drive cuz of family.

Feliz navidad !

Yes, it's definitely tricky with all the different rules for each region... I hope everyone could get to their families on time. Feliz Navidad!!! Enjoy dinner tonight