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Worried this pandemic will never end

134 replies

JuneMoonstone · 23/12/2020 20:07

Just watching Dr John Campell's Coronavirus update on YouTube. He said that the new variant of the virus has implications on herd immunity; that scientists had hoped herd immunity would be reached when about 70 % of people had been infected with covid 19, but with the new variant being so much more contagious, we may now need about 80% of people to be immune, in order to reach herd immunity. As a result the pandemic could go on longer as it'll take longer in order to reach this herd immunity. I honestly don't know how much more I can take of this horrendous situation. There is no end in sight. Just when there seemed to a tiny glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, the news of this new variant has snatched it away. I honestly believe this pandemic will never ever end and even when we think we've got it under control, some new mutant strain will crop up and we all get thrown right back to square 1. It seems like life will just be totally shit from now on and it breaks my heart, especially for my 5 year old daughter and all other children and young people. I'm sorry to be so negative but I am so utterly low and depressed and the news just gets worse and worse.

OP posts:
sleepwouldbenice · 23/12/2020 22:32

Hello OP.
I take my cues from the (non you tube) scientists. Previously they were so pessimistic. Now they have optimism it's just a while off. Hold on in there. It's going to be a shit couple of months but we are at the start of the home run
I do cry lots at the impact of it all though
Take care

sleepwouldbenice · 23/12/2020 22:33

@celan

If the pandemic had happened 10/20 years ago it would be a hell of a lot worse

Actually, if it had happened 20 years ago, it would have been a hell of a lot better.

20 years ago there was next to no internet. Schools couldn't have shut; people couldn't have WFH; nobody could spread paranoia about a virus that the doesn't trouble the overwhelming majority of people who contract it.

I bloody well wish this had happened 20 years ago.

I think they might have noticed when the NHS was decimated Hmm
onedayinthefuture · 23/12/2020 22:44

It will end, I don't know how they've done it, but looks like fun in Wuhan right now www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.insider.com/photos-of-wuhans-nightlife-show-city-back-to-normal-2020-12%3famp

BlueBlancmange · 23/12/2020 22:49

@AnxiousElephant77

I feel like this too. I know it's not a big deal really, but dp and I were supposed to get married this coming Sunday and it's postponed to next December. Whenever I feel hopeful that it can go ahead then, Hancock comes along and bursts my bubble like he was today with his 2022 nonsense.

Ugh it's just all so shit and depressing and it does feel totally never ending. This isn't a terribly helpful post but you certainly aren't alone in feeling despondent.

What did Hancock say about 2022? I missed that.
MadameBlobby · 23/12/2020 22:51

Of course it will end. This is by no means the worst pandemic humanity has ever endured. Hang in there

MadameBlobby · 23/12/2020 22:52

Hancock didn’t say anything about 2022. One of the questions was about not getting back to normal til 2022 and he said he anticipated being back to normal before then.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/12/2020 22:54

@MadameBlobby

Hancock didn’t say anything about 2022. One of the questions was about not getting back to normal til 2022 and he said he anticipated being back to normal before then.
Yes, this One of the questioners talked about 2022 and Hancock sounded quite snippy in his reply!
Plussizejumpsuit · 23/12/2020 22:58

I had moments like this and just feel dispair. But we do have a several new flu vaccines every year. So even if the bugger keeps mutating we will eventually get on top of it.

I had been feeling like Christmas was a little light. Then I could manage a few more months until we started to get more people vaccinated. But now with this new strain etc I just feel pretty meh tbh. But it's not forever!

McSilkson · 23/12/2020 22:59

It will last as long as people let it last and buy into this bullshit.

sleepwouldbenice · 23/12/2020 23:09

@McSilkson

It will last as long as people let it last and buy into this bullshit.
If only your approach had actually worked. Anywhere
windturbines · 23/12/2020 23:10

In my personal, totally non educated opinion, I think next year might be a write off but hopefully to a lesser extent. By 2022 I think things will get back to 'normal. Vaccination is definitely the way out of this and everyone needs to comply (obviously excluding those who can't have the vaccine due to medical reasons).

The longer people continue not listening guidance and fucking around with going around without a mask, having big gatherings etc, the longer it will take. But we will get there eventually.

I'm currently on maternity leave. Due to return around March-May time. I've accepted that my entire maternity leave will be a write off. It sucks. Giving birth over lockdown was shit. I've had awful HV contact. I've been hit with PND. But I'm also aware that I'm lucky to have my two kids and they won't remember this (both under 2). I really do feel for those with older kids and teens. Also feel awful for all the vulnerable and elderly folk. It's truly been shit but we have to try and seek joy in the things we can. It's the only way we can get through this.

Try to have a lovely Christmas, OP. Eventually it will just be a bad memory. Flowers

AnxiousElephant77 · 23/12/2020 23:10

Well I'm glad I've come on here and read what he actually said rather than the stupid headlines. Perhaps a break from the news would be good for me as well before my head actually falls off my shoulders.

Kjc39 · 23/12/2020 23:11

The bbc news was saying last night that it will take till April to vaccinate the vulnerable. But for social distancing measures/restrictions to end we need greater herd immunity, which is looking like being August at least

Spiratedaway · 23/12/2020 23:17

@confuseddotcom090

If the pandemic had happened 10/20 years ago it would be a hell of a lot worse

We had Asian flu in the late 60s with a far higher death toll once adjusted for demographics and population growth. And nobody blinked an eyelid.

My dad told me this and he lost clas mates but nothing shut down
Gwenhwyfar · 23/12/2020 23:18

"My dad told me this and he lost clas mates but nothing shut down"

I think it varied by area. I read about people who had to stay away from school, but it didn't reach other areas at all. My parents seem to have no memory of it.

AcornAutumn · 23/12/2020 23:21

[quote Gwenhwyfar]The whole her immunity thing has been shown up to be a stupid strategy anyway so we were not going for that.
The pandemic/lockdowns will end one way or another. If the vaccine doesn't do it, we might have a 'social end' to the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com/2020/05/10/health/coronavirus-plague-pandemic-history.html[/quote]
This sounds interesting but it won’t let me read it without a log in. Please would tell you us the gist if you have time? Thank you.

WeAllHaveWings · 23/12/2020 23:22

There are lots of different scientists with differing opinions with varying levels of optimism, some of them just looking for their 5 mins of fame. It is impossible for most people to fully understand or look at their comments critically.

We are all struggling, you are not alone. If it impacts your MH stop seeking out these type of videos, stick to major government updates and information on the guidance/rules and concentrate on what you can do to make lockdowns less painful.

Science and the vaccine will be our way out, it will take a bit more time but we will get there.

DecemberDiana · 23/12/2020 23:24

It will end, they always do.

If it does turn out it's spreading faster it could end quicker but with worse mortality outcomes. Then again the vaccine rollout is promising.

I do hope that this part is the darkest before the dawn bit.

turnitonagain · 23/12/2020 23:27

It’s been 9 months. If you got pregnant in a March you’re just having the baby now. Sorry but that’s not even remotely close to “forever.” I have family living in poor countries in Africa and the Caribbean, they’ve been through far worse that has lasted longer eg more dangerous viruses, war, post disaster recovery. Stay away from YouTube, spend time with your little one, and count your blessings.

Spiratedaway · 23/12/2020 23:28

I am struggling too

Hearwego · 23/12/2020 23:31

The pandemic will come to an end but I’m worried about the long term effects and economic damage.
Some of these changes will be irreversible and won’t go fully back to how things were. I think some industries will be gone forever or atleast dying a death.
The point is, I want it to go back to how it was...

Gwenhwyfar · 24/12/2020 01:06

Acorn
In the previous century, the Black Death killed at least a third of Europe’s population.
A Sicilian fresco from 1445. In the previous century, the Black Death killed at least a third of Europe’s population.Credit...Werner Forman/Universal Images Group/Getty Images
Gina Kolata
By Gina Kolata
Published May 10, 2020
Updated May 14, 2020
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When will the Covid-19 pandemic end? And how?

According to historians, pandemics typically have two types of endings: the medical, which occurs when the incidence and death rates plummet, and the social, when the epidemic of fear about the disease wanes.

“When people ask, ‘When will this end?,’ they are asking about the social ending,” said Dr. Jeremy Greene, a historian of medicine at Johns Hopkins.

In other words, an end can occur not because a disease has been vanquished but because people grow tired of panic mode and learn to live with a disease. Allan Brandt, a Harvard historian, said something similar was happening with Covid-19: “As we have seen in the debate about opening the economy, many questions about the so-called end are determined not by medical and public health data but by sociopolitical processes.”

Endings “are very, very messy,” said Dora Vargha, a historian at the University of Exeter. “Looking back, we have a weak narrative. For whom does the epidemic end, and who gets to say?”

In the path of fear
An epidemic of fear can occur even without an epidemic of illness. Dr. Susan Murray, of the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin, saw that firsthand in 2014 when she was a fellow at a rural hospital in Ireland.

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In the preceding months, more than 11,000 people in West Africa had died from Ebola, a terrifying viral disease that was highly infectious and often fatal. The epidemic seemed to be waning, and no cases had occurred in Ireland, but the public fear was palpable.

“On the street and on the wards, people are anxious,” Dr. Murray recalled recently in an article in The New England Journal of Medicine. “Having the wrong color skin is enough to earn you the side-eye from your fellow passengers on the bus or train. Cough once, and you will find them shuffling away from you.”

The Dublin hospital workers were warned to prepare for the worst. They were terrified, and worried that they lacked protective equipment. When a young man arrived in the emergency room from a country with Ebola patients, no one wanted to go near him; nurses hid, and doctors threatened to leave the hospital.

Dr. Murray alone dared treat him, she wrote, but his cancer was so advanced that all she could offer was comfort care. A few days later, tests confirmed that the man did not have Ebola; he died an hour later. Three days afterward, the World Health Organization declared the Ebola epidemic over.

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Dr. Murray wrote: “If we are not prepared to fight fear and ignorance as actively and as thoughtfully as we fight any other virus, it is possible that fear can do terrible harm to vulnerable people, even in places that never see a single case of infection during an outbreak. And a fear epidemic can have far worse consequences when complicated by issues of race, privilege, and language.”

Black Death and dark memories

ImageDisinfecting an autopsy table at a plague hospital in Mukden, China, in 1910, during a wave of pneumonic plague, also caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis.
Disinfecting an autopsy table at a plague hospital in Mukden, China, in 1910, during a wave of pneumonic plague, also caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis.Credit...Library of Congress/Corbis/VCG, via Getty Images
Bubonic plague has struck several times in the past 2,000 years, killing millions of people and altering the course of history. Each epidemic amplified the fear that came with the next outbreak.

The disease is caused by a strain of bacteria, Yersinia pestis, that lives on fleas that live on rats. But bubonic plague, which became known as the Black Death, also can be passed from infected person to infected person through respiratory droplets, so it cannot be eradicated simply by killing rats.

Historians describe three great waves of plague, said Mary Fissell, a historian at Johns Hopkins: the Plague of Justinian, in the sixth century; the medieval epidemic, in the 14th century; and a pandemic that struck in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

The medieval pandemic began in 1331 in China. The illness, along with a civil war that was raging at the time, killed half the population of China. From there, the plague moved along trade routes to Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. In the years between 1347 and 1351, it killed at least a third of the European population. Half of the population of Siena, Italy, died.

“It is impossible for the human tongue to recount the awful truth,” wrote the 14th-century chronicler Agnolo di Tura. “Indeed, one who did not see such horribleness can be called blessed.” The infected, he wrote, “swell beneath the armpits and in their groins, and fall over while talking.” The dead were buried in pits, in piles.

In Florence, wrote Giovanni Boccaccio, “No more respect was accorded to dead people than would nowadays be accorded to dead goats.” Some hid in their homes. Others refused to accept the threat. Their way of coping, Boccaccio wrote, was to “drink heavily, enjoy life to the full, go round singing and merrymaking, and gratify all of one’s cravings when the opportunity emerged, and shrug the whole thing off as one enormous joke.”

That pandemic ended, but the plague recurred. One of the worst outbreaks began in China in 1855 and spread worldwide, killing more than 12 million in India alone. Health authorities in Bombay burned whole neighborhoods trying to rid them of the plague. “Nobody knew if it made a difference,” the Yale historian Frank Snowden said.

Image
Dissecting rats in New Orleans in 1914 for signs that they might be carrying bubonic plague.
Dissecting rats in New Orleans in 1914 for signs that they might be carrying bubonic plague.Credit...Corbis, via Getty Images
It is not clear what made the bubonic plague die down. Some scholars have argued that cold weather killed the disease-carrying fleas, but that would not have interrupted the spread by the respiratory route, Dr. Snowden noted.

Or perhaps it was a change in the rats. By the 19th century, the plague was being carried not by black rats but by brown rats, which are stronger and more vicious and more likely to live apart from humans.

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“You certainly wouldn’t want one for a pet,” Dr. Snowden said.

Another hypothesis is that the bacterium evolved to be less deadly. Or maybe actions by humans, such as the burning of villages, helped quell the epidemic.

The plague never really went away. In the United States, infections are endemic among prairie dogs in the Southwest and can be transmitted to people. Dr. Snowden said that one of his friends became infected after a stay at a hotel in New Mexico. The previous occupant of his room had a dog, which had fleas that carried the microbe.

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Such cases are rare, and can now be successfully treated with antibiotics, but any report of a case of the plague stirs up fear.

One disease that actually ended

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Edward Jenner, one of the early developers of the smallpox vaccine, inoculating a child from the disease in 1796.
Edward Jenner, one of the early developers of the smallpox vaccine, inoculating a child from the disease in 1796.Credit...Hulton Archive/Getty Images
Among the diseases to have achieved a medical end is smallpox. But it is exceptional for several reasons: There is an effective vaccine, which gives lifelong protection; the virus, Variola major, has no animal host, so eliminating the disease in humans meant total elimination; and its symptoms are so unusual that infection is obvious, allowing for effective quarantines and contact tracing.

But while it still raged, smallpox was horrific. Epidemic after epidemic swept the world, for at least 3,000 years. Individuals infected with the virus developed a fever, then a rash that turned into pus-filled spots, which became encrusted and fell off, leaving scars. The disease killed three out of 10 of its victims, often after immense suffering.

In 1633, an epidemic among Native Americans “disrupted all the native communities in the northeast and certainly facilitated English settlement in Massachusetts,” said Harvard historian Dr. David S. Jones. William Bradford, leader of the Plymouth colony, wrote an account of the disease in Native Americans, saying the broken pustules would effectively glue a patient’s skin to the mat he lay on, only to be torn off. Bradford wrote: “When they turn them, a whole side will flay off at once as it were, and they will be all of a gore blood, most fearful to behold.”

The last person to contract smallpox naturally was Ali Maow Maalin, a hospital cook in Somalia, in 1977. He recovered, only to die of malaria in 2013.

Forgotten influenzas
The 1918 flu is held up today as the example of the ravages of a pandemic and the value of quarantines and social distancing. Before it ended, the flu killed 50 million to 100 million people worldwide. It preyed on young to middle-aged adults — orphaning children, depriving families of breadwinners, killing troops in the midst of World War I.

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In the autumn of 1918, Victor Vaughan, a prominent doctor, was dispatched to Camp Devens near Boston to report on a flu that was raging there. He saw “hundreds of stalwart young men in the uniform of their country, coming into the wards of the hospital in groups of ten or more,” he wrote. “They are placed on the cots until every bed is full, yet others crowd in. Their faces soon wear a bluish cast, a distressing cough brings up blood stained sputum. In the morning the dead bodies are stacked up in the morgue like cord wood.”

The virus, he wrote, “demonstrated the inferiority of human inventions in the destruction of human life.”

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Red Cross volunteers in Piedmont, Calif., making masks in October 1918.
Red Cross volunteers in Piedmont, Calif., making masks in October 1918.Credit...Edward (Doc) Rogers/MediaNews Group/Oakland Tribune, via Getty Images
After sweeping through the world, that flu faded away, evolving into a variant of the more benign flu that comes around every year.

“Maybe it was like a fire that, having burned the available and easily accessible wood, burns down,” Dr. Snowden said.

It ended socially, too. World War I was over; people were ready for a fresh start, a new era, and eager to put the nightmare of disease and war behind them. Until recently, the 1918 flu was largely forgotten.

Other flu pandemics followed, none so bad but all nonetheless sobering. In the Hong Kong flu of 1968, one million people died worldwide, including 100,000 in the United States, mostly people older than 65. That virus still circulates as a seasonal flu, and its initial path of destruction — and the fear that went with it — is rarely recalled.

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How will Covid-19 end?
Will that happen with Covid-19?

One possibility, historians say, is that the coronavirus pandemic could end socially before it ends medically. People may grow so tired of the restrictions that they declare the pandemic over, even as the virus continues to smolder in the population and before a vaccine or effective treatment is found.

“I think there is this sort of social psychological issue of exhaustion and frustration,” the Yale historian Naomi Rogers said. “We may be in a moment when people are just saying: ‘That’s enough. I deserve to be able to return to my regular life.’”

It is happening already; in some states, governors have lifted restrictions, allowing hair salons, nail salons and gyms to reopen, in defiance of warnings by public health officials that such steps are premature. As the economic catastrophe wreaked by the lockdowns grows, more and more people may be ready to say “enough.”

“There is this sort of conflict now,” Dr. Rogers said. Public health officials have a medical end in sight, but some members of the public see a social end.

“Who gets to claim the end?” Dr. Rogers said. “If you push back against the notion of its ending, what are you pushing back against? What are you claiming when you say, ‘No, it is not ending.’”

The challenge, Dr. Brandt said, is that there will be no sudden victory. Trying to define the end of the epidemic “will be a long and difficult process.”

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AcornAutumn · 24/12/2020 01:16

Gwen thank you so much

My concern is the hysteria is so bad, the social end will be much further away. Also I think in prior pandemics, government never saw so much opportunity for control and that will be the lasting awful legacy.

TheClaws · 24/12/2020 02:34

OP, all pandemics reach an end of sorts - that is their nature. The virus may still be present in some form in the community, but we now have vaccines (yay!) as a first-line of defence. These will eventually take effect - it may just take some time to kick in due to the size of the population. We'll get there.

TroubadorinTrouble · 24/12/2020 07:22

I agree that the medical end might come before the social end on this one. The level of hysteria is palpable, I’m not sure how it can be quenched.

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