Tier 4 - Office work

[doireallyneedaname]

What’s the deal now? I know it states work from home unless “unable to” but what if said office states you’re “unable to” collectively because of lower productivity at home?

I am due to return to work shortly and I am perfectly capable of doing my job from home but I have a feeling it won’t be allowed.

The government advice is so annoyingly vague - because they say work from home ‘if you can’ employers just have to think of a basic reason why you can’t - need to answer the office phones, need to sort the post etc. Lots of businesses don’t have modern tech and can’t afford it - laptops for all staff, internet phones etc. Particularly the smaller businesses. Also like the op says, lots of employers like to have staff in the office to oversee them. The general perception is that office staff have had it easy during this pandemic but that’s not the case for everyone.

If productivity is lower among the staff when WFH then either the management is poor or the workforce need to be replaced.

The company I work for have been really responsible about the whole pandemic, and we have all been working from home since March, except those that cannot - warehouse pickers, delivery drivers, and a few other key roles that can only be done at the office. The slackers have either left of their own accord or been made redundant. There is no room for dead wood in a pandemic.

A lot of places have been very responsible. My previous job have everyone working from home 3 days a week, then they rotate them in office for the other 2.

In this day and age I just find it so outrageous.

In this day and age I just find it so outrageous.

I agree. There has to be an element of trust between the management and their staff. I realise that I am very lucky that the team I work in is managed excellently, and we are treated with respect and are trusted to get on with our work without needing to be micromanaged. In return everyone pulls their weight and, if anything, are going above and beyond to fulfill our roles.

I’m in London and took the Tube yesterday expecting to be met by empty carriages. They were far from empty. Looks like a lot of people are still going to offices.

Lots of people find they need to go into work to preserve their mental health actually - it is not a one way street that being at home in the shared room in a bed sit is wonderful and going into a huge posh office is awful. Often vice versa.

Do you want to raise this?

As if you do, you should use the 'if you can' section. Set out your main duties and a column that says 'Can be done from home' then a colour / yes / tick to show how much actually can be done from home.

Then ask them to provide you with information why they think otherwise.

If you suggest that the HSE would approach it from this angle that might encourage them to try a bit harder??

@Xenia

Lots of people find they need to go into work to preserve their mental health actually - it is not a one way street that being at home in the shared room in a bed sit is wonderful and going into a huge posh office is awful. Often vice versa.

I agree. I prefer to be with my workmates, but we talk on Teams every day, and there is quite a lot of banter. Again, this is down to our managers who recognise that we aren't robots, and encourage occasional teamhigh spirits as long as we get on with our work.

Our HOD has often said "but you would be talking about the GBBO/I'm a Celebrity/other TV programme if you were in the office, so there's nothing wrong with dicussing it on Teams"

It doesn't matter if the office is bloody Covid secure, whatever the fcuk that means, you have to get to the office with other people/households in your face (if on public transport), and that's definitely not bloody Covid secure!

My mums office took this stance, one colleague came in despite feeling unwell and the entire office of 14 was testing positive a few days later. My mum is spending Christmas in hospital on a CPAP machine. She’s 51, not overweight, fit and healthy. It’s so unfair and irresponsible that employers take this stance when roles can be done from home. I feel for you OP

sorry , but whenever iv read about office workers bleating about having to actually work in an office now , i did wonder if it was just representative of the comments of the daily mails readers , but no here we are , a whole bunch of snowflakes whining about having to leave the house to do their jobs no less ! regardless of if the goverment have said you should work from home if you can , if your employer says no , then its a no just bloody well get on with it , i really really want to know why office workers think they are so much more precious than everybody else who has to step foot outside to earn a living ? more so than the teachers , nhs staff , retail and all the rest of us ? . im sure none of us feel particularly ..safe at the moment but we just wear a mask keep our distance from other people and get on with it . safe is the most pathetic word ever btw , i mean we are in the middle of a pandemic but you want to feel safe , really i if your unhappy working in your office and resenting the fact that your manager says no to working from home , the simple answer is to hand your notice in as now the umemployment is rising no end he will have no trouble replacing you with someone who will come in without the beefing

Then they need to look at why there is lower productivity and what can be done about it.

The government consistently give examples of work that can’t be done at home as ‘construction’ and ‘manufacturing’.

Ridiculous comment. Some people physically cannot do their job from home, but some can, and those people should be allowed to not only to protect themselves but to help stop spread as a whole.

really i if your unhappy working in your office and resenting the fact that your manager says no to working from home , the simple answer is to hand your notice in as now the umemployment is rising no end he will have no trouble replacing you with someone who will come in without the beefing

It’s a lot more pleasant working from home for some people and cuts out wasted time on public transport. What’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with making people happier?

More and more people will want to wfh so companies will have to be flexible if they want to retain good, experienced staff.

@chaosrabbitland

sorry , but whenever iv read about office workers bleating about having to actually work in an office now , i did wonder if it was just representative of the comments of the daily mails readers , but no here we are , a whole bunch of snowflakes whining about having to leave the house to do their jobs no less ! regardless of if the goverment have said you should work from home if you can , if your employer says no , then its a no just bloody well get on with it , i really really want to know why office workers think they are so much more precious than everybody else who has to step foot outside to earn a living ? more so than the teachers , nhs staff , retail and all the rest of us ? . im sure none of us feel particularly ..safe at the moment but we just wear a mask keep our distance from other people and get on with it . safe is the most pathetic word ever btw , i mean we are in the middle of a pandemic but you want to feel safe , really i if your unhappy working in your office and resenting the fact that your manager says no to working from home , the simple answer is to hand your notice in as now the umemployment is rising no end he will have no trouble replacing you with someone who will come in without the beefing

And increase the pressure on the NHS? And if the number of staff off with covid where I work increases, then the NHS and other key workers won't be getting their PPE.

Your comments are ill thought out.

I'm in the same situation, my boss has no trust and would never let people work from home. There's no HR, it's a small company, don't dare report it and don't want to lose my job at this time. I've previously worked entirely remotely and had my own business so god knows why he thinks I wouldn't work well. It's the sort of place that has cctv cameras pointing at out screens. I'm applying for other jobs but I guess it could be years before I find something in the current situation :(

i think you will find they dont have to be flexible at all , if they have staff moaning about wanting to work from home they dont have to comply at all , as i said unemployment is rising rapidly , all they will do hire another person who is happy to come into work and do the job , its not going to be hard to replace people that leave now at all . all companies want to keep their staff happy , but only as long as it suits the needs of the business and thats what its all about , the needs of the business as a whole . there are plenty of people out there just as qualified as the person who chooses to leave , no such thing as a person that cant be replaced .

@doireallyneedaname

Ridiculous comment. Some people physically cannot do their job from home, but some can, and those people should be allowed to not only to protect themselves but to help stop spread as a whole.

but the fact is that if office based companies are saying to their staff that they want them in the office for the needs of their business , then why do they have to bend over backworks to allow employees to work from home just because it makes them feel happier ? lets be real all these people whinging about having to go in arent bothered about stopping the spread of the virus , they just want the comfort of not leaving the house , if a lot of companies are saying that they find work from home is less productive that says it all . they have a duty to make the workplace as safe and risk free as possible , its not their duty to help stop the spread ffs

They've told you why though, lower productivity when wfh.

I have to say that customer service has been rubbish since so many people have been wfh, and then to get anything done they have to transfer you to the people in the office anyway.

We went back in sept with senior management picking and choosing who could continue tO WFH. We started getting a little bit off with it and low and behold we had a positive case....HSE all over us...and we all went home again.

If you have an HR dept they should be investigating the drop in productivity - and I would be asking for actual proof of this extremely forcefully before quoting the guidelines. If you can WFH you must.

They have responses stating I will be office based. Do I have any fight here? It’s filling me with dread. I don’t even know where to go from here with them.

What is filling you with dread? Are you CEV?

Why is productivity lower wfh? All I keep hearing here is how much more efficient everyone is wfh, although it's true that's not borne out by my experience dealing with banks and insurance companies etc as a customer.

All the guidance is "where possible", if people can't work effectively from home it's not possible. Steps should be taken to try and stay 2m apart but if it's not possible, it's not and they should consider other measures such as masks, sitting side by side rather than facing each other etc

If it reassures you we had a couple of people in our office test positive (caught from elsewhere and timing meant not from each other) and no one else in the office caught it and track and trace didn’t even consider anyone at work close contacts.

Ah, this again.

Not only CEV suffer with this virus. There are long term effects for some, and not forgetting perfectly healthy people that have been hospitalised.

Also, the new strain doesn’t sound particularly thrilling based on what is being reported.