No longer a national priority to keep schools open

[noelgiraffe]

The government has surreptitiously dropped its priority to keep schools open.

It has replaced it with a priority to “keep education open”.

Remote learning is now a viable alternative to keeping schools open (as opposed to last Monday when it was a matter for the high court).

In the DfE media blog, tweeted earlier today regarding the delayed start to term in January they say:

“ Is this an extension of the Christmas holiday?

No, this isn’t an extension of the holiday and we haven’t asked that the start of term is delayed.

All students will return to education from the first day of term. Secondary school and college students should learn remotely for one week except those in exam years, vulnerable young people and the children of critical workers. It remains our national priority to keep education open and we are not closing education for any period other than during the set holiday periods.”

Interesting development.

@SantaAssociationRepresentitve

Funnily enough *@user1496146479 and @tappitytaptap* plenty of teachers, especially those on mumsnet, have children too.

Yes who would likely be in school or childcare!! What's your point?

So they should be understanding then when parents say they fear having to chose between working to put food on the table or try to educate their children - in many cases you can’t do both.

@Spikeyball

"They need to produce a set of standards fast. Hopefully not ones that are impossible for the schools to achieve but enough to ensure kids get taught appropriately online."

It isn't possible to teach some children online. When people say switching to online or remote learning they need to accept they are saying switching to no education for some children.

This 100%

I’ve said it before , if both parents are working , if you have multiple children including a baby or toddler on top of that or if you have no quiet space or not enough I-pads etc it’s impossible.

The majority of people and families I know fall into these categories

Online learning out of school will mean no learning for thousands

@mrshoho

From the start Us4them has been terrible. Their insistence on schools being open no matter what. They were so vocal in demanding no social distancing at all in schools. Ironic that if schools had returned with more stringent measures schools could now be providing much better education. Instead we are back to uncertainty and infection rates out of control in many areas thanks to the high transmission in schools. Us4them should disband and crawl under the rock they came from. Don't know how much support from their friends in high places will be giving them now.

Absolutely. Anyone who thought it was a good idea to give the virus space to multiply and adapt, by making our children and schools the Petri dish, should have their tail thoroughly between their legs and be reflecting on the fact that this is in part on their heads.

@SantaAssociationRepresentitve

Funnily enough *@user1496146479 and @tappitytaptap* plenty of teachers, especially those on mumsnet, have children too.

In lockdown one ds2's nursery was closed for 3 months and I was offered one day at school as a key worker place due to demand being so high for ds1. Don't assume school staff automatically get allocated keyworker spaces.

Sorry @SantaAssociationRepresentitve I was agreeing with you but I think the way I've quoted you looks like I'm not!

She too has spotted the shift from school to education being open.

They’re not that bright, they’ll have got it from here.

Us4Them are all over the discredited Great Barrington Declaration, it’s why they always say ‘oh if course ECV shouldn’t be in school.’ They want to live their lives as normal and the existence of people who get covid badly get in the way of that. So those people should become hermits or they only have themselves to blame if they catch it. I wonder if these people have no friends or elderly relatives to worry about.

Anyway, they wanted herd immunity, what they got was covid super-strain. Well fucking done them. Self-obsessed scientific illiterates.

sugarplum, I am more than sure she reads (and comments on) noel's threads!!

@Spikeyball

"They need to produce a set of standards fast. Hopefully not ones that are impossible for the schools to achieve but enough to ensure kids get taught appropriately online."

It isn't possible to teach some children online. When people say switching to online or remote learning they need to accept they are saying switching to no education for some children.

Yes sadly I agree with you. We are never going to be able to sort a decent education for everyone though. The best we can do for now is make sure the majority of children have there needs being met.

Once the majority have there education protected you try and do what is needed for the rest. No solution that fits every child or every school I am afraid.

@Piggyinblankets

sugarplum, I am more than sure she reads (and comments on) noel's threads!!

Ha ha, fair point!

Once the majority have there education protected you try and do what is needed for the rest. No solution that fits every child or every school I am afraid.

That’s very easily said, much harder when your child is one who won’t have their needs met by online/distant/remote learning. In the end I’ve hired a specialist tutor for my daughter who can at least show me different strategies to help her learn. A handful of Twinkl worksheets just wasn’t helpful or accessible for her.

@sherrystrull

Sorry *@SantaAssociationRepresentitve* I was agreeing with you but I think the way I've quoted you looks like I'm not!

No probs. I know of secondary teachers who couldn’t get a key worker space at primary schools because primary schools thought the secondary teachers could deliver lessons and homeschool at the same time.

They want to live their lives as normal and the existence of people who get covid badly get in the way of that. So those people should become hermits or they only have themselves to blame if they catch it.

So it’s not ok to suggest that those who are particularly vulnerable should limit their lives, but it is ok to say the whole population should limit theirs?

Once the majority have there education protected you try and do what is needed for the rest.

And it’s also ok to compromise the education of those children who arguably need to most support to learn, because the majority will be ok?

I guess it’s about who we’re happy to leave behind.

So it’s not ok to suggest that those who are particularly vulnerable should limit their lives, but it is ok to say the whole population should limit theirs?

The problem with allowing unchecked spread among certain parts of the population is it makes mutations more likely, and some of the time that will mean a worse outcome for us. With the vaccine around the corner I think there's a good case for suppressing the virus everywhere, so that it has less opportunities to mutate into a version which defeats the vaccine, produces worse outcomes or, God forbid, affects the young worse.

The alternative is just going round in circles responding to the virus' agenda again and again. Get numbers low, any way we can. Get the vaccine out. Get ready in case it happens again.

So it’s not ok to suggest that those who are particularly vulnerable should limit their lives, but it is ok to say the whole population should limit theirs?

Because what they’re talking about is ECV people basically never leaving their house versus the population having to wear masks and socially distance. I’m happy to wear a mask and socially distance to protect others, some people are less community-minded.

Well no mitigation measures in schools is what we got, and it turns out that rampant covid is slightly more unpleasant than wearing a mask.

They are disease vectors in SAGE meetings

@user1496146479 the point is that it is tough for everyone - there are no winners

The problem with allowing unchecked spread among certain parts of the population is it makes mutations more likely, and some of the time that will mean a worse outcome for us. With the vaccine around the corner I think there's a good case for suppressing the virus everywhere, so that it has less opportunities to mutate into a version which defeats the vaccine, produces worse outcomes or, God forbid, affects the young worse.

Yes, great post. So true.

I personally don't think it's an accident that in one of the only if not the only country not to have masks in schools, and also with the most overcrowded schools, we've seen a nastier mutation arise.

I have no issue with wearing a mask, socially distancing, appropriate hand hygiene.

I’m not getting “no mitigation” in schools. My kids are in primary school. They have a staggered start and staggered breaks so no more than one class is in the playground at a time, no parents allowed on school premises, parents and staff wearing masks for drop off and pick up, no materials moving between home and school and vice versa, no school bags, everyone sanitising hands when they leave or return to class, no shared learning materials, no group singing or drama, outside learning daily in all weathers, windows open at all times, teachers not mixing in the staff room. Staggered lunch breaks so kids in their bubbles only, no external/specialist staff coming into school, common areas cleaned twice daily, classrooms cleaned daily. What more could they do?

CorvusPurpureus
That isn't really the point I was taking up with you, though, which was your presumption that certain schools, because of their demographics, should be less bothered about staying in unsafe conditions at school because they don't celebrate Christmas. Not cool.

That's not what I 'presumed' at all. The article focused on the disappointment of having to isolate on Christmas Day - I pointed out that Christmas Day was probably not a significant festival day for the pupils attending that particular school - together with "well below average" progress scores for reading ("below average" in Maths).

Regarding "unsafe conditions" at the school;

"The trust said the school has received “exemplary” feedback from the Health and Safety Executive over its Covid measures after a November site visit."

jelly, pop along to your local large state comp if you want to see what is really meant by no mitigation measures in schools.

Most of the mitigations are to prevent transmission via touch. But fomites are not the main route of transmission - which is airbourne.

Without masks or social distancing in classrooms there is no mitigation against the MAIN way coronavirus transmits. Which is airbourne, and more significant indoors and with longer contact.

I think it's ridiculous, to be honest, that schools don't see the utter lack of logic in requiring parents to wear masks outside (so very well ventilated, not enclosed) for pick up which takes maximum 10-20 minutes when their kids are in an enclosed indoor space breathing in the air and potentially virus laden respiratory droplets and aerosols of their classmates for 6 hours a day with no masks.

If you're not having masks for the majority in classrooms it seems utterly pointless really. I mean, I'm for it, obviously but the cognitive dissonance that is required to pretend that's going to make schools safe when the biggest risk BY FAR is in the classroom. Which is the highest risk, most unsafe setting possible.

And the setting virus mutations can completely take advantage of.

I accept it’s much easier to put measures in place in primary school, which means it’s unfair to lump primary and secondary schools in the same pot. You did say no mitigation in schools, which isn’t necessarily so.

We all have masks on in corridors but as soon as we bumble in for a lesson we take the off. So as I ask questions I am probably sending droplets over them and as they answer questions they are sending droplets to me and over each other.