I don't understand the opposition to mass testing in school

[Blanketyblankblankety]

I thought that's what teachers on here wanted. Won't it mean school will be much safer as you'll be able to identify asymptomatic DC plus not have to rely on parents not to send DC in even with symptoms. Why is there so much negativity?

Maybe it because teaches have had an absolute titful with the continuous teacher bashing, changes to the rules at the very last minute, told yesterday they were doing tolhentesting and now today, low and behold they aren't. BUT they need to sort it all out by Jan when the children return. Merry f##kinf Christmas

OP, where was I nasty, Janet Jackson?

Obviously the timing is a major issue - no parent on the last day of term of what’s been a pretty crap year wants to hear that schools actually are closing again and now they have to try and get more time off work.

Teachers are wondering how this mass testing is going to be carried out and by whom - without it affecting the school day in any way.

Many young people are also often asymptomatic so if they are tested and it’s negative (which many tests have come back incorrect) then they will still be spreading it or a large amount is going to be positive and they’ll have to isolate in larger numbers which people are worried will end up leading to school closures.

It is a good thing it’s just going to be very difficult and I don’t know why they would suggest it on the last day of term and not give any full information on it so that’s all people will be thinking about over Xmas.
I honestly think this is the government’s way of getting a lockdown without using the words lockdown - I bet all non essential shops will be closed too.

@DougRossIsTheBoss

I'm not sure people understand what these tests are like compared to the PCR ones either. It is a bit more involved.

The sticking a swab up your nose bit is the same but then you have to extract and test your own sample. I think this is probably why it is so inaccurate because there is a lot that can vary with those stages and mess the results up.

You have to put the correct amount of reagent in the extraction tube and then wiggle your sample about in there. How long and how forcibly you do that for will affect results. Then you have to put the correct amount on the test well and wait 20-30mins.

If NHS and care staff are not getting much accuracy I don't fancy the chances of a bunch of school kids being supervised by a teacher who has watched a video.

If it was an additional measure then maybe it's helpful but to substitute it for isolation just isn't reasonable at all.

This explanation needs to be highlighted.

The whole plan is probably in the bin anyway, the article is behind a paywall, but if you refresh the page few times you should be able to read it.

Mass testing in schools on brink of collapse as unions back heads who refuse to take part
A joint statement from all the major education unions, school governors and the Church of England says the proposals are “inoperable”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/18/mass-testing-schools-brink-collapse-unions-back-heads-refuse/

@bornatXmastobequiet

Teachers have wanted mass testing for months. But what they wanted was for well organised, professional HCPs to arrive, set up shop and offer their services so children and staff could be quickly tested and allowed to get back to the business of learning with as little disruption as possible, or similar. Instead, the whole thing has been handed over to schools themselves to organise using school staff and possibly suitable volunteers (if they can be found), in premises that may be unsuitable, and without clear guarantees of funding (bearing in mind that other government promises have come to nothing), in the very last days of the term and with a requirement to be ready for the beginning of next term. And all this despite spending billions on a test and trace system that doesn’t work. It’s shameful.

Well that’s unrealistic. People actually expected HCPs to turn up to each school every morning to test all pupils abc staff? Where are all these extra HCPs coming from? There’s thousands of schools.

The idea that if my partner tested positive I'd still be absolutely fine to come in everyday and be around loads of kids is ludicrous.

I want medically trained staff, or the army, testing in schools.
Not teachers or volunteers. And organised by the DofE, not head teachers over the Xmas break.

Mass testing should have been in place since September. Not sprung on schools at the start of Xmas.

I’m a teacher. I think mass testing is a good idea.

The government is suggesting stopping the isolation of close contacts and siblings of positive contacts and wants them sent to school every day anyway. They will then be offered daily tests that are about 50% reliable, administered by volunteers.

I’m sure you can see, OP, that this is not mass testing.

What difference will it make? They just a snapshot of that day don’t they?
Not sure what it’s for ( genuinely)

I want medically trained staff, or the army, testing in schools.

FFS, like they've got nothing else to do, people overestimate both the size and capabilities of the army, there's just not enough of them for all these jobs.

@BlueBrian

I want medically trained staff, or the army, testing in schools.

FFS, like they've got nothing else to do, people overestimate both the size and capabilities of the army, there's just not enough of them for all these jobs.

Just like teaching then

@BlueBrian

I want medically trained staff, or the army, testing in schools.

FFS, like they've got nothing else to do, people overestimate both the size and capabilities of the army, there's just not enough of them for all these jobs.

Who do you suggest does it?

If there hasn’t been the time, funding or staffing to have any of this up and running by 4th January, schools should continue as they are and isolate contacts/siblings of positive cases for 10 days, like they are in every other sector in the country.

When a better plan is made, then we can move to that with proper planning, time and staffing.

Honestly... I can't see the problem with it. I just don't think it would be that hard to organise. It takes seconds per kid. How will the schools be asked to pay? They won't. Swab up the nose. Into a plastic bag. Off to a lab. One person could do 100 kids a day easily. You need a couple of corridors, halls with two chairs set up at the end. Kids line up.. Parents give consent. Kids get vaccines at school? Our school nurse did 150 in a day and half the kids were hysterical. Just get on with it.

@Blanketyblankblankety

Can't a secondary school age DC do their own test with supervision?

We've been piloting the testing at our school. The students do the test themselves under supervision. You need staff to register each individual's barcode; process each test (takes about 5 mins); clean and disinfect in between each test; wait 30 minutes for the test to develop then another member of staff records the result by scanning it on the NHS app which automatically sends an email with the result.

The student has to remain in the testing hall for about 35 mins, because of social distancing you have to test students in batches. It takes 9 members of staff around 3 hours to test 100 students.

FFS, like they've got nothing else to do, people

When they piloted mass testing in schools they used the army and medically trained professionals.

How can you run a pilot and then declare that it will be rolled out but without any of the resources and for heads to set up themselves over Christmas?

It’s bonkers. The suggestion wasn’t even discussed with anyone in schools before announcing it, and the flaws are so blatantly obvious that even Gav has gone into hiding rather than defend it.

Well that’s unrealistic. People actually expected HCPs to turn up to each school every morning to test all pupils abc staff? Where are all these extra HCPs coming from? There’s thousands of schools.

Where did you get each school every morning from? Not from what I said, you made that bit up. This is what the Government said:

as many secondary-age pupils and staff as possible being offered 2 lateral flow device tests, starting in the week commencing 4 January, prioritising staff, vulnerable children, the children of critical workers and pupils in years 11 and 13

www.gov.uk/government/publications/schools-and-childcare-settings-return-in-january-2021/schools-and-childcare-settings-return-in-january-2021

@MakeWorkYourNewFavourite do you work in education?

Honestly... I can't see the problem with it. I just don't think it would be that hard to organise. It takes seconds per kid. How will the schools be asked to pay? They won't. Swab up the nose. Into a plastic bag. Off to a lab.

You get that the school is expected to set up, resource and staff their own lab in the next two weeks?

We've been piloting the testing at our school. The students do the test themselves under supervision. You need staff to register each individual's barcode; process each test (takes about 5 mins); clean and disinfect in between each test; wait 30 minutes for the test to develop then another member of staff records the result by scanning it on the NHS app which automatically sends an email with the result.

The student has to remain in the testing hall for about 35 mins, because of social distancing you have to test students in batches. It takes 9 members of staff around 3 hours to test 100 students.

That’s really helpful to know thanks. Looks like schools are going to need quite a few volunteers then to do this.

I think mass testing is a good thing.
Removing the self isolation requirement, and substituting in a daily test is madness, for all the reasons above and probably more.
Dumping it on the schools right at the end of term is just abuse of senior leadership teams.

I am all for each school bringing back a year group at a time, and somehow pull out the stops to get each group screened. I am absolutely against using lateral flow tests as a replacement for isolation.
Of course, these is the small matter of numbers of tests required. I suspect leadership will spend their Christmas planning for something that wont materialise.

I wanted mass testing in schools. I'm 100% all for it.

What I don't want is:

Testing instead of isolation

School staff to have to find the staff to supervise
those completing the tests

School leaders to have to have to spend their Chris holidays organising something that should have been done a long time ago

Schools attempting to find the room for this to happen.

Where do the DFE think the extra staff to supervise are coming from? Schools simply don't have excess staff coming out of their ears. For every person you remove to supervise, something in the school has to be put on hold or be stopped completely.

Also, where is the PPE coming from? Who will deliver it? Where are the structures to make these testing facilities coming from? Who pays for them? With what money?

What I want is weekly testing at local sites for school children on a walk in basis. I want those who are identified as positive contacts to self isolate in line with all other guidance. They are giving us half hearted tests that are known to give a number of false positives.

It's simply not good enough. The DFE isn't fit for purpose and I honestly thought Gove was the worst Ed Secretary until Gavin stepped out of the shadows during this crisis.

@WildWaterSwimmer have you done this with solely school staff / volunteers ?

Off to a lab

Nope. No labs. All done at school.