School covid volunteers will not be DBS checked

[jomartin281271]

Schools minister told the media this morning that the volunteers they are recruiting to carry out the covid checks at school won't be DBS checked. So they're letting total amateurs who could have an unsavoury history carry out a test that in some rare cases has caused serious injury. Well done government. Another botched job that is doomed to fail.

So you think PTA volunteers are DBS checked?

DBS doesn't have magical powers and it was never intended to be the sole check on people but it is a starting point. I mean if we don't have something that is 100% perfect does that mean we just don't bother doing anything.

I used to do DBS checks as part of recruitment process. You'd be amazed how many people tell you they have no criminal record but you then get back information about what they have done. I think for most of us we'd think it's not even worth applying for something where you need a DBS if you have a record your hiding but people do it all the time.

I don't know if they still do it but when CRB first started you could get what was known as "the brown envelope" it was intelligence about people who hadn't got convictions but were on the radar. I never got one so can't say what they were like but we were warned that the information was not to be disclosed to the individual concerned.

I volunteered in local school for several years and I was DBS checked. Although I did complain to the school as they had specifically ticked the box for information relating to children and I asked them how they'd feel about someone with an issue with 18 year olds? When I did checks I wanted all the information as our service users were vulnerable and although all 18 or over I felt someone who had done something inappropriate with a 17 year old wasn't necessarily trustworthy with a vulnerable 18 year old.

DBS checks are bullshit.

A colleague of mine was sacked for abusing an SU. He went on to get another care job. He's now working alone, with vulnerable adults and goes unsupervised into their homes.

It's terrifying.

@Summerstorms

They actually don't legally need to be if they are never alone with any children.

This not correct when the volunteer is carrying out a ‘regulated activity’ (which this is) in a ‘specified establishment’ (which a school is). They still require a DBS even if there is Supervision. And Supervision doesn’t just mean someone standing in the room, it means one to one Supervision of the activity at hand. And if they’re going to need teachers to do that then they might as well use them for the testing 🤷‍♀️. And it is irrelevant that DBS checks won’t always pick up every individual who is a danger to be with minors or vulnerable people. The point is the current Safeguarding directive requires it. So, either the government don’t know the Safeguarding directive or they’re blatantly overriding it in order to roll this out. In which case they should say so.

Don't you need to be DBS checked if you are a regular volunteer? Or are the government asduming one shift of this would be enough for anyone?

I think publically announcing this is a huge red flag! People with previous convictions now know there is a huge rush job going on with inadequete checks in place. This will allow them access to personal data and children directly. Being watched doesnt really stop them heading home to groom online with the information they have gathered.
The dbs system isnt perfect with the whole doesnt pick up new offenders pr people not caught but this is an open invite to known offenders that could have been deterred.

I can't quite believe that so many posters are happy for adults, recruited to handle personal data and physically carry out a procedure on a child, not have a dbs check. All regular visitors in school or volunteer parents accompanying classes on school trips have to have one. Yes @bigwoolyjumpers pta members who come into school during the day are required to have one in my school.

@lonelyplanet

I can't quite believe that so many posters are happy for adults, recruited to handle personal data and physically carry out a procedure on a child, not have a dbs check. All regular visitors in school or volunteer parents accompanying classes on school trips have to have one. Yes *@bigwoolyjumpers* pta members who come into school during the day are required to have one in my school.

I’ve helped on school trips without one.

@MillieEpple

I think publically announcing this is a huge red flag! People with previous convictions now know there is a huge rush job going on with inadequete checks in place. This will allow them access to personal data and children directly. Being watched doesnt really stop them heading home to groom online with the information they have gathered. The dbs system isnt perfect with the whole doesnt pick up new offenders pr people not caught but this is an open invite to known offenders that could have been deterred.

I hope you are wrong.

Certainly at DC’s school I think it will largely be parents who will step forward to volunteer. These same parents who are on site at the school every day for drop off and pick up and could have any number of convictions but still are allowed there.

Many parents who volunteer at schools will already be DSB tested by them anyway. It could work out well.

@Herja

Don't you need to be DBS checked if you are a regular volunteer? Or are the government asduming one shift of this would be enough for anyone?

Yes. For the purposes of safeguarding ‘frequently’ means ‘such as once a week or more, 4 or more days in a 30-day period, or overnight between 2am and 6am’ So yes, unless each volunteer goes in to each school once or twice only, which sounds highly unlikely, they need to be checked.

I’ve helped on school trips without one
Presumably because you didn’t meet the criteria. A PTA member or regular volunteer probably does meet the criteria. Hence they required the DBS.

@Judashascomeintosomemoney

I’ve helped on school trips without one Presumably because you didn’t meet the criteria. A PTA member or regular volunteer probably does meet the criteria. Hence they required the DBS.

Yes I was replying to the poster who said

volunteer parents accompanying classes on school trips have to have one.

Basically this plan just isn't going to work, there is no way this can be organised in time, they have absolutely no chance of getting enough volunteers, or training them before the term starts.

@MillieEpple

I think publically announcing this is a huge red flag! People with previous convictions now know there is a huge rush job going on with inadequete checks in place. This will allow them access to personal data and children directly. Being watched doesnt really stop them heading home to groom online with the information they have gathered. The dbs system isnt perfect with the whole doesnt pick up new offenders pr people not caught but this is an open invite to known offenders that could have been deterred.

Absolutely. And, once again, it’s irrelevant how useful people think a DBS might be. The point is it’s a requirement of the safeguarding directive. Looks like the government will ride roughshod over that. That is the point. When else might they decide to use these kind of powers? I’m assuming that Nick Gibb does actually know the rules and possibly this kind of thing has been covered in the sweeping Coronavirus Act that was passed by government. They can suspend safeguarding of it suits them presumably. If they actually announced ‘We are suspending safeguarding in order to do this’ lots of people would think so what? But lots more would sit up and think wait, what? And not be ok with it.

Its the volunteer bit that frustrates me. Why should they be volunteers and not paid?
Masses of unemployed/underemployed people and not exactly a cushy job so worth paying people.
Just the government don’t like giving money to schools.

And no, DBS checks certainly won’t work to help safeguard children, if you don’t even carry them out

They're not sticking the swab up the kids arses, it's a straight forward nose and throat swab. Can't get worked up about a stranger doing that to my kid if they're supervised by staff. There's no risk from the procedure, for everyone saying it's dangerous and people can get injured, has this actually happened? I just cant imagine someone who wants to hurt others choosing a cotton swab as their weapon of choice.

The only miniscule risk would be if a pedo volunteered and found some way to lead the kids away to a private area and do something nasty away from staff supervision. Or befriending them and using it as a grooming opportunity. But is that really likely given how much work there is to do and how many staff will be supervising? I trust school staff to know how to safely manage volunteers, they do it all the time.

There are always evil people in the world, but the chances that they would be able to use this quite restricted role to do anything dodgy is pretty remote IMO.

@lonelyplanet

I can't quite believe that so many posters are happy for adults, recruited to handle personal data and physically carry out a procedure on a child, not have a dbs check. All regular visitors in school or volunteer parents accompanying classes on school trips have to have one. Yes *@bigwoolyjumpers* pta members who come into school during the day are required to have one in my school.

Never had one and have regularly been in school for the last 15 odd years, primary and secondary.

Isn't it a mute point anyway, we don't know the details yet, and certainly "children" over the age of what, 14, can surely administer their own test. So it should just be crowd control.

Even less chance that my DS will be tested if there’s no dbs being carried out - not that I’d give permission to let him be tested anyway.

Surely the children in secondary schools will be doing their own swabs?

Are the people at covid testing centres DBS checked? I don't see how it is much different to taking your child to a testing centre.

Surely the children in secondary schools will be doing their own swabs?

Would hope so. I wouldn’t do my own older dc.

@TheDrsDocMartens

Its the volunteer bit that frustrates me. Why should they be volunteers and not paid? Masses of unemployed/underemployed people and not exactly a cushy job so worth paying people. Just the government don’t like giving money to schools.

There are plenty of places advertising paid jobs for this now. Stepteachers for example. So not sure where the money is coming from for that.....

www.cqc.org.uk/guidance-providers/all-services/covid-19-interim-guidance-dbs-other-recruitment-checks

DBS checks are not required if the volunteers are needed immediately for covid related roles, providing appropriate measures are put in place to supervise them. Schools have been managing parent volunteers for years without issues, I fail to see the problem.

How are parents surprised about this?
You do realise that all those parent volunteers who go on school trips, listen to groups reading, helping out around the school aren’t necessarily checked?

Or when a school takes on a new member of staff many start before the DBS clears as part of the probation period?