Plan for testing in schools in New Year

[Orangeblossom77777]

Just wondered what you thought about the new plans for using the lateral flow tests in schools in England after the New Year?

www.gov.uk/government/news/secondary-schools-and-colleges-to-get-weekly-coronavirus-testing

I’d rather the kids were sent home then properly tested on day 7 at a testing centre rather than this shambles.

Happy to test myself. Testing children in lower primary won't get off the ground, it's not worth it.

Reported on PM this evening as DfE wanting to improve attendance.

But actually make schools even less safe.

DfE don’t give a shit about safety, that much is obvious.

@borntobequiet

Reported on PM this evening as DfE wanting to improve attendance.

This is clearly the agenda.

Attendance in schools is too low because of coronavirus. We must therefore improve attendance by ignoring coronavirus and pretending it isn’t a problem in schools.

Headline alone: looks promising. Who wouldn’t want to be tested or avoid the need for unnecessary self-isolation?

Detail: schoolsweek.co.uk/7-staff-roles-2-hour-training-and-dhsc-sign-off-on-press-schools-given-mass-testing-instructions/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This could be the straw that break’s the camel’s back. If by camel you mean senior leaders. And by back you mean their mental health or hearts.

They could actually wind up reducing attendance though if they use it instead of isolating contacts and then those contacts were actually positive but falsely believe they are not so they exercise even less caution and go on to infect others

They could wind up with bigger outbreaks and more children off overall.

@Misssugarplum12764

Headline alone: looks promising. Who wouldn’t want to be tested or avoid the need for unnecessary self-isolation?

Detail: schoolsweek.co.uk/7-staff-roles-2-hour-training-and-dhsc-sign-off-on-press-schools-given-mass-testing-instructions/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This could be the straw that break’s the camel’s back. If by camel you mean senior leaders. And by back you mean their mental health or hearts.

That's a very interesting leak.

It seems to say that schools will be responsible for everything and they are being directed to talk positively about the testing system on their social media using established DfE propaganda.

@noblegiraffe

I’d rather the kids were sent home then properly tested on day 7 at a testing centre rather than this shambles.

Absolutely.

I also think there's not enough thought given to the hierarchy of 'solutions' in terms of actual teaching and learning.

IF educational outcomes (or ability to sit exams in any fair or meaningful way this year) are truly a priority, it can't just be about getting bums on seats in school - and not only because of the obvious covid risk to staff and other kids. The headlines of 55% attendance, or whatever, disguise a whole mess of long term absence, bubble closures, contacts isolating for different periods in different year groups/classes/friendship groups. Some kids in and out over the course of months, others not affected at all or hit differently so you're not face to face with the same students consistently for any length of time.
It's nightmarish to plan for as it is; the proposed testing plans actually make this near impossibility worse if anything.

Attendance in schools is too low because of coronavirus. We must therefore improve attendance by ignoring coronavirus and pretending it isn’t a problem in schools.

This in a nutshell.

We're in Liverpool and have taken part in the lateral flow testing pilots here. A few observations on it:

• the lateral flow tests rarely get false positives, so if it shows positive you probably are, but there's a fairly high rate of false negatives (I read about 50% for a self administered test) so if you're using these for people who are close contacts of a confirmed case (or for other things where it's very important that a negative is really negative like visits to care homes) it's a fairly risky strategy. Some of that issue can be overcome by repeat tests, but still I'm not sure I would want DS sitting next to someone in class who was a close contact of a positive case. It doesn't seem safe enough unless they can improve the accuracy of the tests. Especially as in schools there are not any other mitigations such as masks or distancing. I think offering tests to close contacts is a good thing, but still think they need to isolate too.

• where I think lateral flow test can come into their own are in mass asymptomatic testing. They are cheaper than PCR tests and faster, so for aysymptomatic people who are not close contacts of a positive test, doing mass screening would actually make things better than they are now. So for example if they were going to test the whole bubble when there is a case (not just the close contacts) that would actually be an improvement on the current situation and make schools safer than they are now. I don't think that's what they are proposing though :-(

I think that because of the false negative risk, they still need to put other mitigations in place to make schools safer. This won't do it on it's own.

Regarding the tests themselves, they are done exactly the same way as the PCR tests, a swab of the tonsils and then of the nostril. DS is 13 and does his own. He's pretty matter of fact about them and doesn't mind too much (he's had 2 PCR tests due to symptoms before half term, then he's been tested weekly on lateral flow whilst we have had the pilot in Liverpool). However the tests although not painful are a bit uncomfortable and I can see that there might be problems getting some kids to have them, especially younger children. I guess parents of those children can choose to isolate them instead, but of course that still poses issues for working parents so not everyone will feel that they have a genuine choice on that (equally, some working parents might feel that this makes things much easier for them).

So, on the whole I am concerned about this specific plan to only test close contacts - but in favour of proper mass testing in schools, especially if they can also do other things to make schools safer as well.

Excellent idea. Maybe they'll finally get organised and get the army to do it.

Should have been done since Sept.

@catsarecute
Re lateral tests
"in validation studies conducted by Oxford University and Public Health England, they were shown to be as accurate in identifying a case as a PCR test (99.8% specificity).”

that suggests not many false negatives - any idea how they make this out?

from here

That 99% figure is as far as I know for false positives. If the lateral flow test says you are positive you probably are.

If it says you are negative you might not be.

That schools handbook that was leaked is a total fucking joke.

Now as well as doing the trace bit of test and trace we’re supposed to set up a test centre on site too? In our handy well-ventilated unused large room that also has a non-porous floor?

And we should get considering manning it with parent volunteers? Who will have watched a 15 min video and some online worksheets?

And talk about it positively on social media?

@DougRossIsTheBoss

They could actually wind up reducing attendance though if they use it instead of isolating contacts and then those contacts were actually positive but falsely believe they are not so they exercise even less caution and go on to infect others

They could wind up with bigger outbreaks and more children off overall.

Totally right

Think worrying about sending kids home in case it was just a cold and not covid is why my sons secondary had to close. Three weeks ago!

volunteering has always been part of school life
Erm... I volunteer to mentor struggling kids. I volunteer to be on the staff and parent council. I volunteer to run a club. I do not volunteer to swab students for covid. Luckily our head has already said thanks but no thanks.

@noelgiraffe

That schools handbook that was leaked is a total fucking joke.

Now as well as doing the trace bit of test and trace we’re supposed to set up a test centre on site too? In our handy well-ventilated unused large room that also has a non-porous floor?

And we should get considering manning it with parent volunteers? Who will have watched a 15 min video and some online worksheets?

And talk about it positively on social media?

Bonkers isn’t it. When I was taught propaganda as a child, I remember thinking “but how did this work? didn’t people see through it?” Now I’m living through it, I’ve seen how. They’ve got their rent-a-head back on their Facebook page now spouting it, ironically with a video clip showing masked teachers (at their whiteboards teaching)

That leek

I'm sure most schools were just waiting for something to do with that large well ventilated room and extra volunteers they have just waiting around. Guess Friday's training will have a video for all!

I was told a few days ago that all staff no matter student facing or not will be tested on site at least once if not twice a week.
If you come into contact with anyone who tests positive either at work or in your personal life you will continue to come in as normal but will be tested everyday for 2 weeks.
It's absolutely ridiculous