Minister threatens headteacher who wanted to move to online teaching

[DecemberSun]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/12/minister-threatens-school-heads-over-pre-christmas-online-lessons?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1w1oeCcjoUnPnz4jdlJq0CfyPlyMfnS_gNYuBp6yZo9K7zLVnycfEgmzY#Echobox=1607767566

@donkeysliveaverylongtime

The HT was doing it for wellbeing and MH reasons so it seems churlish to trot the MH line out.

The research used by SAGE is extremely open to question and has very very little credibility. It included 'best guesses' as to what 'might happen' and was stated with 'low confidence'.

Exactly. It’s like a shoe shop only ordering the most common show size and then wondering why there isn’t something to fit everyone. When a clever mathematician doesn’t get society or a cynical plan to keep the economy going? I think the latter and think a Chris Witty probably has a gagging order atm. Where on earth is he otherwise?

And as usual, I think the scale of the issues in schools is impossible to understand unless you see if every day. Because most of what we do is confidential it is often hard for anyone outside the staff (and sometimes then it is only the safeguarding team who have the full picture). Many students would also be essentially unaware.

We had a year 11 girl take an overdose in the toilets last week. There are at least ten more off school with exam based anxiety. I have never known it this bad.

And yet SAGE is the paragon of knowledge when ordering school closure for firebreaks.

Which also wasn’t that great in the end.

@BelleSausage

And as usual, I think the scale of the issues in schools is impossible to understand unless you see if every day. Because most of what we do is confidential it is often hard for anyone outside the staff (and sometimes then it is only the safeguarding team who have the full picture). Many students would also be essentially unaware.

We had a year 11 girl take an overdose in the toilets last week. There are at least ten more off school with exam based anxiety. I have never known it this bad.

It must be hard. No I don’t know each individual. I just know the difference here and it is marked.

Anyway, my main point is: individual schools know best what works for their school communities and should be allowed to do what is needed. The DfE are being lazy and forcing previously effective schools into impossible positions.

If a schools has a massive outbreak and has the tech and a plan for vulnerable kid then they should be allowed to enact it. Anything otherwise is sheer stupidity.

There's been so much enforced repeated self isolation here, tier 3 NW, that some girls were crying when sent home yet again for the third or fourth time since September. Year 11.
I have a year 11 and year 13. Theyre desperate to be in, and feel more pressurised and detrimental to their mental health trying to learn at home than cracking on in school with their peers.

There weren't school closures for firebreaks in England?

But that would have been a numbers and pH decision .

You are crediting them with understanding pedagogical research on teaching and learning and mental adolescent health and wellbeing. The ONLY credible study into the effects of mass schol closure s comes form NZ and isn't really applicable to covid.

I think it was better when SAGE kept out of making pronouncements about learning. There is apparently now an advisory committee but they ahve signed a gagging order and do not need to publish minutes.

@MarshaBradyo

Except you only know your son and his friend. You have no idea how the student body at his school is doing. Kids are blinkered and don’t talk to anyone out of their own friendship groups. The girls we have the most trouble with are quiet, studious girls who look totally fine on the outside. And then they go home and fall apart.

None of this kids know what happened with the girl because it was between lessons and a member of staff found her. I would be careful making sweeping statements based on two kids.

Piggy any paediatric study I read draws the same conclusions. Obviously I haven’t read the entire cannon but a few that has thrown up a general trend. Enough to make me notice it.

Do you disagree with what Whitty puts forward?

Re firebreaks SAGE did suggest it in September?

[quote BelleSausage]@MarshaBradyo

Except you only know your son and his friend. You have no idea how the student body at his school is doing. Kids are blinkered and don’t talk to anyone out of their own friendship groups. The girls we have the most trouble with are quiet, studious girls who look totally fine on the outside. And then they go home and fall apart.

None of this kids know what happened with the girl because it was between lessons and a member of staff found her. I would be careful making sweeping statements based on two kids.[/quote]
Friends was that a typo

No I don’t know that girl. But do you recognise the dc who were lagging at home and better in? Do you have any? My dc can’t be that statistically alone!

Yes Marsha, I'm a teacher. Busy teaching planning marking mopping up hysterical teenagers and fraught staff rather than reading tenuous "research".

Yes, but the firebreaks didn't happen so we can't know what effect they might have had. I am quite sure many SAGE members actually (epidemiologically ) support schol closures but aren't allowed to say this.

Paediatric studies aren't educational studies.

Yes, I disagree with Whitty and don't trust him one bit. Not before the ONS fiasco and certainly not since.

@Piggywaspushed

Yes, but the firebreaks didn't happen so we can't know what effect they might have had. I am quite sure many SAGE members actually (epidemiologically ) support schol closures but aren't allowed to say this.

Paediatric studies aren't educational studies.

Yes, I disagree with Whitty and don't trust him one bit. Not before the ONS fiasco and certainly not since.

Wales did and the idea was it would save more restrictions before Christmas

That’s a shame re Whitty. If you don’t you don’t. I am grateful that someone turned the narrative around on harm to dc.

@MrsHamlet

Yes Marsha, I'm a teacher. Busy teaching planning marking mopping up hysterical teenagers and fraught staff rather than reading tenuous "research".

Ah funny how that May study was linked by so many. Well I linked it for you since you asked. You’re welcome

@MarshaBradyo

I know a whole range of kids- the ones who were in school every day because their home lives are terrible, the ones who spent the entire of lockdown on their PlayStation, the ones who loved working from home, the ones whose parents e-mailed everyday for extra work, the ones turned up to every TEAMS lesson with their mums and the ones who didn’t turn up at all.

I would like a system that could offer something for all of them. Instead of a system that works well for the very few and crushes others. I would like to see schools be able to plan something that better fits their school community and challenges.

In a school of over a 1000 students a sample size of ten or so (I’m assuming your DS is popular and that you have deep heart to hearts with all of them and know their deepest feelings about the situation) is minuscule.

Yes it is minuscule but I’m pretty sure they are not statistically particularly noteworthy.

Amd more in primary and I know my school isn’t some bizarre event of difference.

Dc in those cases are better in.

Marsha teachers have literally been talking about vulnerable children and harm for years. it's a little insulting to suggest that Whitty needed to kickstart that.

I am more than sure he was told by HMGov that people like and trust him and so was chosen (instead of eg Jenny Harries) to pass on those messages. SAGE were definitely instructed to put together the paper pulling together the so called research. Just as ONS were instructed to show teachers were not at risk.

SAGE are not always right! Remember the 'children don't catch or transmit it' line??

Instead of a system that works well for the very few and crushes others.

Actually do you mean being in class works well for the few?

I’m surprised by this

"Turned the narrative around on harm" to children.

The worst thing that can happen in a family is for the child or children to die.

The next worst thing is to lose the parents.

It is not without harm for children in CEV to be facing the potential loss of their parents.

Other countries have allowed CEV families the option of home educating temporarily.

I just don't understand how this sensible plan is supposedly not in children's best interests. Especially where the parents are well able to support the homeschooling. It s bonkers.

Chris Whitty at one point said that CEV parents were supposed to make some sort of other arrangement.

What the fuck exactly are we meant to do, can you give a coherent answer to that?

Nope, I thought not.

Marsha teachers have literally been talking about vulnerable children and harm for years. it's a little insulting to suggest that Whitty needed to kickstart that.

Yes you are very good at this generally no doubt. But in this pandemic yes it took Whitty to change the course of direction. Ie get us out of mass school closure.

Here I have said that German system would be better and for people to remember government messaging is for the masses and be mindful of that when deciding. I can’t change it but I don’t agree with this part.

@MarshaBradyo

Marsha teachers have literally been talking about vulnerable children and harm for years. it's a little insulting to suggest that Whitty needed to kickstart that.

Yes you are very good at this generally no doubt. But in this pandemic yes it took Whitty to change the course of direction. Ie get us out of mass school closure.

Actually, unless you have good evidence on that, I would be a bit doubtful. The way schools are organised is appalling with respect to infection control. I have been wondering how Profs Whitty and van Tam square this with themselves. Like others on here, I have wondered whether they have stuck with the situation because the Government would make an even worse hash of it without them.

But I think we will have class actions over what is happening for years to come, sadly. It is appalling. And I do doubt that the pressure to pile all the children into schools like erm sardines into a petri dish, I doubt that came from the doctors.

LOTS of scientist think schools should be closed. It is a known area of conflict.

Noe of them ever says it is a simple issue.

I used to know the CMO of Scotland. After he stepped down he said many interesting things about government influence over his speeches, papers and even his thoughts.

It's kind of you to point it out, Marsha - I'd not read it and certainly never pointed it out to anyone.
My experience with my own students is that some are behind where they should be, some are where they should be, and some are ahead. But that's normal for this time of year. And we've been relatively lucky in terms of burst bubbles. Locally the rate is ticking up alarmingly so going online might have been a good approach for the last week for our students. But we're not allowed so that's it.

Good Lord! It is like listening to a broken record.

Your son likes to be back at school. Great.

Your son’s school hasn’t been closed by staff sickness. Wonderful.

You are pleased the schools are open and that it is working for you. Lovely.

How are you struggling to see that many schools have been closed by staff shortages and pupil outbreaks. Many Yr11 pupils have lost considerable chunks of this year to isolation. Many parents have been left without childcare for weeks. Many teachers are at the point of burnout trying to prop up the system.

It is great that you are fine. If your school
Is fine then crack on. But there are quite a few school not fine and not coping and they aren’t being allowed to make adjustment to help their staff and student bodies.

Why should other schools be made to struggle just because your school is fine? One size fits all doesn’t work.