Grandparent, Xmas & Covid advice

[Megan1959]

Good afternoon,

Im in a dilemma & looking for advice. My husband & I are over 60 with diabetes, we have two grown up children & three wonderful grandchildren aged between 9 years - 1 year.

We have originally decided that my daughter and family were coming to use xmas day & Box day we go to my son & his family. But my son has a very large family coming to him xmas day and they dont take Covid safety as important as myself, which is making me feel unsafe to go Box day. Ive said I may cancel Xmas this year as we have underlying health conditions and are worried, but this I feel has been taken too well and they think Im probably over reacting.

My daughter is less risk as she is more careful due to also having underlying health conditions, although her daughter/my granddaughter is at school, just gone back having had school shut for 10 days due to covid case at school.

So Im struggling to make a decision. Of course |I want to be with them, never had xmas without them, but is it worth the risk when an end is in sight? If I dont go Ive caused upset with sons family and certainly dont want to fallout. I suggested we met outside for a walk and then I bring flask and cake and kids can open a present (weather permitting) but they dont seem keen as wanted us to go down for day and diner. Im losing sleep over this!
Thanks

Honestly - we are so close to a vaccine that if it was me I probably wouldn't go visiting at Christmas.

It would be a real shame to catch covid now whe you might be vaccinated in a couple of months

The 3 household bubble thing is exclusive - so if your son sees any other household(s) on the 25th then he can't see you and your daughter on the 26th.

As said above, you choose 3 families and cannot chop and change, so your son has to decide what other 2 families he wants to see in that time. You might be doing him a favour telling him you’re not doing Christmas this year. We have decided it’s not worth the risk this year and the 6 different families that we normally see feel the same.

The chance of the other family passing covid onto your sons family in one day and then passing it ok to you the very next day is almost impossible.

However, the kids being at school is the risk.

This year we’ve decided for the first time ever not to spend Christmas with our extended family including my kids grandparents.
We are so close to a vaccine it’s not worth the risk for us.

From what you've said you're feeling unsafe and don't want to visit, other than because you normally see both your children's families at Christmas.

I think you've misunderstood how the Christmas bubbles work. If his household are seeing one other on Christmas Day that's two. You're seeing your daughter's household Christmas Day - that's another two. You and your son's households can't see each other on Boxing Day as that would be a bubble of four households.

Given how close the vaccine is and that you're already worrying I'd give it a miss this year.

@OverTheRainbow88 - that's not true at all. Do you understand how transmission works?

As well as the "not feeling safe" you have a get out clause in that you can simply say you don't want to choose which child you can see (so as not to break the 3 bubble rule) so would prefer to see neither. Meeting outside sounds like a reasonable alternative!

Thanks all for your replies. Have I misunderstood bubble thing? You can see 3 other families? So in my bubble its me/husband + daughter + Son = 3 bubbles. My son would be me/husband + Inlaws = 2 bubbles. My Daughter would be me/husband + one friend = 2 bubbles.
I do find this whole thing hard to grasp I admit

Sadly my son & daughter have fallen out so dont see them altogether, have to see them separately :-(

A bubble has to be a fixed group of 3 households. Not that everyone can see 2 other households (or the transmission chain would go on forever).

If you form a bubble with your son and daughter, then neither of them can see anyone else.

So your options are

• Create bubble with son and daughter (neither of them see anyone else)
• Create bubble with daughter and friend(son sees inlaws on Christmas Day; means daughter's friend wouldn't be able to see anyone else)
• Create bubble with son and his inlaws (this would mean his inlaws couldn't see anyone else)
• Form bubble with no one

The chance of the other family passing covid onto your sons family in one day and then passing it ok to you the very next day is almost impossible.
It is NOT almost impossible at all. Assuming OP's son's family are Covid-free, they then spend the whole of Christmas day indoors with other family who could asymptomatically have the virus. They start incubating the virus. They then see OP and her husband on Boxing Day and transmit the virus to them. It is absolutely a possibility that they could be shedding the virus before even showing symptoms.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3D5ae25bc7_6&ved=2ahUKEwih4bfNhbLtAhVNecAKHbI5DjMQFjAKegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw2RFr1XEDv_O9uqyoV4X9br" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200402-sitrep-73-covid-19.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3D5ae25bc7_6&ved=2ahUKEwih4bfNhbLtAhVNecAKHbI5DjMQFjAKegQIFxAB&usg=AOvVaw2RFr1XEDv_O9uqyoV4X9br

Pre-symptomatic transmission
The incubation period for COVID-19, which is the time between exposure to the virus (becoming infected) and symptom onset, is on average 5-6 days, however can be up to 14 days. During this period, also known as the “pre-symptomatic” period, some infected persons can be contagious. Therefore, transmission from a pre -symptomatic case can occur before symptom onset. In a small number of case reports and studies, pre-symptomatic transmission has been documented through contact tracing efforts and enhanced investigation of clusters of confirmed cases. 12-17 This is supported by data suggesting that some people can test positive for COVID-19 from 1-3 days before they develop symptoms.6,16 Thus, it is possible that people infected with COVID-19 could transmit the virus before significant symptoms develop. It is important to recognize that pre-symptomatic transmission still requires the virus to be spread via infectious droplets or through touching contaminated surfaces.

Asymptomatic transmission
An asymptomatic laboratory-confirmed case is a person infected with COVID-19 who does not develop symptoms.
Asymptomatic transmission refers to transmission of the virus from a person, who does not develop symptoms.There are few reports of laboratory-confirmed cases who are truly asymptomatic, and to date, there has been no documented asymptomatic transmission. This does not exclude the possibility that it may occur. Asymptomatic cases have been reported as part of contact tracing efforts in some countries.

You and the two other households in your bubble can only see each other, no-one else, for the whole five days. A bubble is exclusive of everyone else.

It sounds like you would be a lot safer and happier just giving the family a miss this year. Have Christmas in summer when hopefully you'll be vaccinated.

Wow thank you all so much, really had this bubble thing wrong didn't I :-( But to be honest so has everyone Ive spoken to, including my son & daughter, yikes!

Calmandmeasured - I didn't reply to the poster that wrote "The chance of the other family passing covid onto your sons family in one day and then passing it ok to you the very next day is almost impossible." as I quite appreciate that is not the case at all, but thanks for clarifying.
Megan

I’ve read all above and still feel the risk is Very very small seeing one person with covid and then passing it on to someone else the next day.

I mean if I saw my sister on Monday (who had covid but didn’t known) and then saw my mum on tue, surely it would be very unlikely I would pass it to my mum?

As above, a bubble is a group of three, and you can only be one, so the plans you’ve described don’t fit the Christmas rules. That aside though, we’re only a few months away from some sort of normally so I would settle for a quiet Christmas this year and plan a large family gathering for summer.

@OverTheRainbow88 - so you think you can only catch the virus from a contact who you know has the virus. And if that's the case, why would you see them? Your logic is ridiculous and dangerous. How do you think it spreads so quickly?

@luckylavender

No I know you can get it from someone not presenting symptoms.

My logic is there’s an incubation period of usually 5 days: so I wouldn’t be contagious one day after seeing someone who is contagious.

It’s irrelevant to how I’m behaving anyway, as I said I’m not actually using the 3 households bubble this Christmas and we are sticking as our one household unit.

@OverTheRainbow88 - did you read @Calmandmeasured1's post? Such misinformation is so dangerous.

We have made decision not to see in laws as feel its not safe and not worth the risk. The end is in sight, lets sit tight and beat this first.