How honest should I be with my relative?

[2345AnotherName]

A close family member who I don't live with works in a hospital as admin. She has just texted me saying that she has received a letter inviting her to have the vaccine. I was surprised as I didn't think her role would be included but very happy it's been offered to her. Anyway, in her text she asked me if I thought she should take it, as it might not be 'safe'. She went on to hint at anti-vax theories.

I am absolutely fuming that she could frankly be this stupid to believe these theories, or even question the safety of the vaccine. However, this is unfortunately in line with her approach to the pandemic generally. She's been having people round during lockdown, and now Tier 2 for frivolous reasons, has ignored the Christmas bubble rule and will be mixing with at least 5 households at Christmas. She won't be opening any windows or following the safety guidance. (I'm going nowhere near and she couldn't comprehend why I am choosing not to mix).

She fails to follow the news or the briefings, which is her choice, but then she hasn't acted responsibly. She thinks the Xmas rule is daft since she's been going to work in a hospital and mixing with people daily, and her kids have been going to school. All her kids are following suit and are completely clueless about the virus and seem to think it simply doesn't affect them. I get really angry as I feel passionately that we all have a responsibility to the vulnerable in our communities. It makes my blood boil to witness their lax attitude.

Up till now, although I've been fuming I've kept out of it mostly as I didn't feel it was my role to preach or tell her off (she's my elder, if that makes any difference). Now she's asked my advice about the vaccine.

I'm tempted to let rip and have a right go at her and while I'm at it point out all the ways she's putting people at risk! But again I know it isn't my place.

How far should I go with my advice on response to her question?

I really hate the way debate about vaccination is polarised. I don't think it helps anyone change their opinions. I think you should share your views about vaccines as they've been asked for, but not about the rest of her behaviour or she may discount what you say in favour of the vaccine. In your shoes, I'd leave challenging anything else for a separate conversation.

@TheyPavedParadise Yes, I wasn't disagreeing with your point about not having a go at her. I'm sure that it's probably the best idea not to, even though part of me would like to get it off my chest! I was replying to the point being made that she is being a critical thinker.

I'm surprised some of the posters on here think that's cool and valid.

People aren’t saying anti vax theories are cool and valid. Just that the way to engage with the people that have fallen for them isn’t just to resort to insults.
Asking questions is cool and valid, whatever is motivating them. At least she’s asking you for your opinion rather than trying to convince you not to have it.

I've not resorted to insults at all- I haven't even spoken to her yet!

@2345AnotherName

I've not resorted to insults at all- I haven't even spoken to her yet!

I never said you had. This is a theoretical discussion about what to do next.

although I've been fuming

Top tip - fume less, otherwise it can lead to fumming.

@PurpleDaisies

There was a great question and answer session with professor Jonathan van tam on the bbc this morning. It would be worth directing her to watch that. He talked about safety as the very first question.

Which programme, please?

OP it is pretty clear you don't like her so this thread is a bit pointless really. You are twisting replies - I can't see where anyone said 'cool'? Bit strange really, I will leave you to fume that she has reservations.

@PrivateD00r whatever

Yeah, I think you missed the bit about conspiracy theories?

I happen to think it's our moral and social responsibility to take the vaccine if offered.

@ClearingSpaceOnTheTrophyShelf it’s here.

I like Jonathan Van Tam’s way of explaining things.

Forgot the link.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55171338

I don’t understand what it is about covid that has meant that people aren’t allowed their own views or opinions anymore. We’re all individuals with our own minds and can make whatever choices we chose to with regards to our own bodies/families/health etc. Not sure why everyone suddenly thinks they have the right to wrong or shame anyone else’s views!

I happen to think it's our moral and social responsibility to take the vaccine if offered.

That doesn’t mean you can’t ask questions to make sure it’s safe first.

@Zem74 when "other people's views" are dangerous conspiracy theories that literally put people's lives in danger then we are talking about something entirely different from freedom of thought.

Making up your own mind not to take the vaccine could very likely affect others, by infecting them resulting in further spread of the pandemic, hospital admissions and deaths. It doesn't just affect yourself. Do you not get that?

@Zem74

I don’t understand what it is about covid that has meant that people aren’t allowed their own views or opinions anymore. We’re all individuals with our own minds and can make whatever choices we chose to with regards to our own bodies/families/health etc. Not sure why everyone suddenly thinks they have the right to wrong or shame anyone else’s views!

I agree. It's like some unspoken law that means we have to all be like automatons. It's absolutely bizarre.

FFS @PurpleDaisies you are just picking an argument. If I speak to my relative, I will indeed actively encourage her to read the research and think critically. What I'm annoyed about is when people's sole source of information is Facebook conspiracies, and no reputable news sources.

[quote 2345AnotherName]@Zem74 when "other people's views" are dangerous conspiracy theories that literally put people's lives in danger then we are talking about something entirely different from freedom of thought.

Making up your own mind not to take the vaccine could very likely affect others, by infecting them resulting in further spread of the pandemic, hospital admissions and deaths. It doesn't just affect yourself. Do you not get that? [/quote]
Ah, so this was just a thread about you wanting to tell everyone your view then? Nothing to do with your ‘relative’?

@2345AnotherName

FFS *@PurpleDaisies* you are just picking an argument. If I speak to my relative, I will indeed actively encourage her to read the research and think critically. What I'm annoyed about is when people's sole source of information is Facebook conspiracies, and no reputable news sources.

No I’m not. My posts have been constructive and in direct response to comments made on the thread.

It is a discussion forum. If you didn’t want a discussion, maybe you should write a blog post instead.

Making up your own mind not to take the vaccine could very likely affect others, by infecting them resulting in further spread of the pandemic, hospital admissions and deaths.

Technically, at the moment we don’t know for sure that this vaccine stops transmission. It stops individuals becoming ill with covid.

Some conspiracy theories actually make valid points, not all of them but some.

I'm not an anti vax but I am also cautious and would be making sure alot of other people had it before I ever did.

But then I have also worked with vaccines before ( not directly but with) and I know that they can have some severe side effects its not a secret and the covid vaccine can definitely have severe side affects even Some unknown from lack of testing etc so I don't think she is stupid at all just cautious.

Ultimately either she has it or doesn't but it is up to her and I wouldn't judge either way.

Is she asking you for advice because you are a medical professional or have a science background? Or just in general - if so, I would just tell her to follow the advice of her employer/NHS. No need to go all in with a scathing response.

[quote PurpleDaisies]Forgot the link.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55171338[/quote]
Thank you

@2345AnotherName I do ‘get it’ yes

I am also ECV, have been told to shield twice, my husband is also ECV, we have 2 young children.

But do we wish to accept a vaccine that has had rushed trials and had new laws passed to make it possible to roll out so quickly with limited testing, no we don’t.

Does that make us terrible anti vax conspiracy theorist who want to go about killing other vulnerable people, also no

Personally I am a bit hesitant but not anti vax - I have had all vaccines that someone in their early 20s is offered and have gone out of my way to get my GP to find my childhood records to double check!

The only thing that concerns me about the COVID vaccine are potential side effects, it hasn’t been on the market for as long as the usual vaccines on the standard programme, so understandably there’s not as much research to access. For that reason I wouldn’t love to be an early adopter with vaccine version #1, but I’d be happy to get subsequent versions that may have undergone adjustments after further assessment. I would still get the vaccine.

Technically, at the moment we don’t know for sure that this vaccine stops transmission. It stops individuals becoming ill with covid.

@PurpleDaisies

Yes, but this morning Van Tam very clearly stated that in all likelihood it does. He also said that if everyone invited for a vaccine has it then 99% of Covid-19 deaths could be prevented. Are you going to ignore his advice?