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Original poster

I'm shocked that people don't understand that schools need to be safer.

60 replies

herecomesthsun · 01/12/2020 16:26

Not necessarily to close, but definitely they need to be safer.

We have cases coming down (by and large, to some extent) in the community and we have had rates of positive cases going UP in schools.

The group with the highest % testing positive in the ONS survey is now secondary school pupils.

We could do so much more to make schools safer.

We wouldn't even have to send pupils home so much if schools were safer.

It would be better for the pupils- why expose them to this pathogen, why expose their families?

And some of the WHO advice would give a better quality of education if we could put it in place.

Why would anyone not want to support this?

I'm sure someone will take pity on my and enlighten me Smile

OP posts:
Original poster
herecomesthsun · 01/12/2020 16:59

@wizzbangfizz

Ffs yet another one - can we not have a separate schools and Covid thread
We are discussing the demographic group with the highest % positive currently - our school children,

No one forced you to open this thread, still less to post upon it.

OP posts:
Original poster
herecomesthsun · 01/12/2020 17:01

@MarshaBradyo

Here I’m not sure on that if the alternative is not being able to go to work. That threat can be a definite rather than a very small risk from covid.
If people had the choice, then parents who needed to work could work, and people who wanted to home school, temporarily, perhaps especially if clinically vulnerable, could home school,
OP posts:
QueenBlueberries · 01/12/2020 17:04

I think we should also look at the bigger picture. I live in London and right now, my local secondary school is in a neighbourhood which has one of the highest covid rate in the country (582 cases per 100 000).

The school is getting new cases daily. I've lost count. The school should be asked to shut immediately for 2 weeks.

PrivateD00r · 01/12/2020 17:06

I was supportive of online learning until today. My DC had an extended half term (government mandated) then straight into 2 weeks isolation due to me having covid. He has been back for 2 weeks and is now sitting exams. I am revising with him and he knows NOTHING. The school had put up chapters form textbooks online for him for him to read when off, but without any sort of teaching to back it up, or quizzes etc, he learned nothing and understood nothing. I am absolutely gutted. I was too unwell to teach him when he was off and going forward, he would have to do it alone anyway because DH and I would be in work. I had no idea it was this bad. I am going to have to spend the next few weeks trying to teach him all this in the evenings, and I am no teacher!

This is just not going to work going forward, so I no longer support online teaching.

I do however support masks in classrooms, but I am not convinced it will have the impact school staff hope for (myself and many colleagues have caught covid despite wearing PPE).

Of course schools should be doing all they can to reduce the spread, ours are doing a lot, a lot more than many according to the many posts on here. They seem very innovative and are working hard on implementing measures. However the online learning is simply crap.

RaeburnPlace · 01/12/2020 17:09

My LA has sent out updated information about the importance of ventilation.
Thermals on....

PrivateD00r · 01/12/2020 17:10

If people had the choice, then parents who needed to work could work, and people who wanted to home school, temporarily, perhaps especially if clinically vulnerable, could home school

Lovely idea but surely would be chaotic in reality? If a school has a science and history teacher shielding, are they really going to be able to teach all subjects to shielding children? Or are the French, science, maths etc teachers expected to teach in class and online?

MarshaBradyo · 01/12/2020 17:12

@QueenBlueberries

I think we should also look at the bigger picture. I live in London and right now, my local secondary school is in a neighbourhood which has one of the highest covid rate in the country (582 cases per 100 000).

The school is getting new cases daily. I've lost count. The school should be asked to shut immediately for 2 weeks.

We are in London and haven’t been hit yet. But if we do I hope two weeks remote kicks in at right time for secondary.
Original poster
herecomesthsun · 01/12/2020 17:15

@PrivateD00r

If people had the choice, then parents who needed to work could work, and people who wanted to home school, temporarily, perhaps especially if clinically vulnerable, could home school

Lovely idea but surely would be chaotic in reality? If a school has a science and history teacher shielding, are they really going to be able to teach all subjects to shielding children? Or are the French, science, maths etc teachers expected to teach in class and online?

They would need to team up with the schools in the area for it to work well. Then there would be a reasonable mix of subjects, teachers in class to teach and teachers out of class to support home learning.

We are finding home learning very doable, but then my DH and I have a range of arts and science qualifications and teaching experience.

But I would have been really happy to run a book club if there was more home learning going on (if allowed, but I think that sort of thing would be doable).

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 01/12/2020 17:17

Here I think the German system is what we need. CEV teachers remote for CEV home learning students.

What a massive undertaking to match up, especially in secondary, impressive. But works out at same percentage - 3% same as here

PrivateD00r · 01/12/2020 17:27

They would need to team up with the schools in the area for it to work well. Then there would be a reasonable mix of subjects, teachers in class to teach and teachers out of class to support home learning

We are finding home learning very doable, but then my DH and I have a range of arts and science qualifications and teaching experience

But I would have been really happy to run a book club if there was more home learning going on (if allowed, but I think that sort of thing would be doable)

It might be possible for us to manage if one of us were here all day everyday but we both work out of the house so it just won't work with this standard of 'teaching'. I actually have a phone call with a teacher tomorrow (parents evening type thing) but I don't want to say too much as I am certain they are working incredibly hard, and surely they must know what they are providing is inadequate? I hate complaining to them, I always did even before this year because I know everyone does their best.

Urgh, anyway I am on board with all of your other suggestions!

NobleElephantheThird · 01/12/2020 17:55

Our schools are safe. My 3 have not isolated once.

Online learning can work but people don’t want it because many schools did not deliver it properly in lockdown 1. Our online learning was very effective: teacher video explaining content in detail, work set according to different ability levels, kids upload work which is marked. Kids have 1:1 time with teacher over chat etc or in small groups to go over questions. However, to make it as effective as classroom learning it requires far more effort for teachers so it just isn’t feasible to do that along side classroom teaching as well.

Our ECV staff and kids are home on a case by case basis in discussion with the head and are supported. Some are masked, sitting next to windows etc - all heads trying their best for every pupil and family. No cases but staff on their knees with exhaustion especially trying to bring the lower sets up due to missed school time. That is where most staff stress is coming from, not Covid.

3littlewords · 01/12/2020 18:02

Sadly I think the government will now just wait this out now a vaccine for the elderly and vulnerable is on the horizon. Normally healthy pupils teachers or parents are less likely to need NHS support, there'll be less deaths and hospital admissions , the fact that there's many people are ill at home is a lot easier to ignore than deaths and NHS trusts under strain. I mean they ignore it now they there's even less chance they'll give a shit when death rates have drastically reduced

Possums4evr · 01/12/2020 18:05

I'd like to think my two dc were in well ventilated classrooms all day, but I know from my own experience it is totally up to the teacher - I can go into other room's and find one small window open. Of course students might have closed windows without asking and it can be heard when they tell you they are cold! But at minimum rooms should be well ventilated and they often aren't.
I would not be a TA for love nor money at the moment as they sit with no separation at all from the children. I at least in theory have my "box" at the front though I have to leave it regularly.

Possums4evr · 01/12/2020 18:05

(And not always up to the teacher actually as some rooms have hardly any opening windows, or even none)

bert3400 · 01/12/2020 18:10

I live in a country were masks are mandatory for all over 6. My son yr 7 is completely happy with the mask and it doesn't bother him at all . He has had no cases in his school since September, when he went back .
english.elpais.com/society/2020-11-30/spanish-study-finds-only-8-of-children-with-coronavirus-transmitted-it-to-their-family.html

lazylinguist · 01/12/2020 18:16

I don't think people would prefer blended learning though. Parents generally want kids to be in school. The only points I agree with are that we should send the whoke bubble home if there's a case, and test them. In theory. But the problem with that is that it would effectively force blended learning anyway, because so many kids would be off.

I do think they should remove penalties for keeping your dc off school though. But even that has its issues - vulnerable children in problematic families potentially being kept off for the wrong reasons.

eeyore228 · 01/12/2020 18:23

Our kids wear masks from year 7 up. They had no cases until...a parent decided to send their child in despite knowing they were waiting on a test. He’s been unwell and they still sent him in. Then finally got the test and told the school and he’d been in the entire time. One child and now the entire year has been sent home. Some of it is basically selfishness on the part of the parents I’m afraid.

sleepwouldbenice · 01/12/2020 18:24

O totally support further safety in schools but the point about positivity going up for that age range isn't that inevitable in lockdown??

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 18:26

The only points I agree with are that we should send the whoke bubble home if there's a case, and test them. In theory. But the problem with that is that it would effectively force blended learning anyway, because so many kids would be off.

So it’s better to let covid spread through the year group instead and let the same group of kids have to isolate repeatedly as is currently happening?

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 18:29

positivity going up for that age range isn't that inevitable in lockdown??

The fact that covid is transmitting so heavily in secondary schools that infection rates are rising there despite a lockdown should be a cause for massive concern.

It shows just how desperately schools need better mitigation measures. We were told that the virus wouldn’t spread in schools. We were told that cases in schools were being brought in from the community.

The data from lockdown shows these claims to be dangerous lies. No better demonstration of how untrue they were.

sleepwouldbenice · 01/12/2020 18:34

@noblegiraffe

positivity going up for that age range isn't that inevitable in lockdown??

The fact that covid is transmitting so heavily in secondary schools that infection rates are rising there despite a lockdown should be a cause for massive concern.

It shows just how desperately schools need better mitigation measures. We were told that the virus wouldn’t spread in schools. We were told that cases in schools were being brought in from the community.

The data from lockdown shows these claims to be dangerous lies. No better demonstration of how untrue they were.

I get what you mean but I haven't seen those stats to understand the relative increases
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 01/12/2020 18:35

Agree OP that schools should have the same measures as other workplaces so masks, SD, no ill children/staff allowed in until tested regardless of the main three symptoms as there are many others that children exhibit.

Many just want them open for convenience as it suits them, others are actively writing to MPs for better measures etc.

noblegiraffe · 01/12/2020 18:36

Infection rates from random sampling of the population.

I'm shocked that people don't understand that schools need to be safer.
sleepwouldbenice · 01/12/2020 18:52

Thanks is there anything that shows up to end of Nov and has average on as well. Genuinely interested to try to appreciate the point 😊

MarshaBradyo · 01/12/2020 18:56

The sticking point is SD

Things like masks are easy, ventilation is easy / hard to difficult depending on set up, CEV home easier

But getting more space is the difficult one. We’d have to double the school size. And if you can’t then numbers become the issue (kw and so on)