Poor health made UK worse

[Orangeblossom7777]

Dame Sally Davies on poor health in the UK and covid.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55134496

@BahHumbygge

400 iu won't even touch the sides, the bones get first dibs on vitamin D in the body. I am so peeved by this, it's almost as if they've set it so low to fail from the start. That's the dose where rickets diminishes. Needs to be in the ballpark of 2000 - 4000 iu. 4000 is the upper recommended amount from the NHS for almost all adults and a level that will take most people to a replete serum status, and people more vulnerable to D deficiency such as overweight, elderly and BAME to a reasonably decent status. It's like giving someone doing a Sahara crossing an egg cup full of water. Then claim "water doesn't prevent dehydration".

My 2-year-old is on 400IU of vitamin D per day. This is the standard dose of vitamin D3 for children between 1 - 5.

The smallest dose I know an adult on who has an optimum level is 1,000IU per day. He is very pale-skinned.

What happens if you're referred to a food bank and need to be on a ketogenic/low carb diet for medical reasons (eg T2 diabetes, epilepsy etc)? I sometimes give tinned meat and fish to my local FB collection for good quality protein.

But I thought everyone who died of Covid was very old and on the verge of death anyway?

In which case there isn't anything we could do, is there? Certainly not put them on a diet.

Really old and sick people aren't usually fat are they?

Why the focus on obesity?

Wooly but also France, Belgium, Spain and Italy? Better to compare to countries in similar position.

Germany has done better admittedly. We could have had a Merkel.

On obesity, COVID will hit further due to lockdown - complex reasons as obviously we can exercise - and increased poverty and inequality.

[quote Malin52]@WoolyMammoth55 great post. Add to that, here in NZ we have eliminated COVID so far. And yet we have the second highest obesity rate in the world! More than the UK. Disproportionate rates in the Maori and Pacifica community who also live disproportionately in poorer areas of higher population density.

Given we can exclude these two variables we are back to government, leadership, clear and meaningful communication and solid decision making that makes the most significant impact. [/quote]
You haven't eliminated COVID.

Obesity is one of the main drivers for poor metabolic health, which is intimately connected to the immune system. If you are obese, it takes much longer to become replete in vitamin D (and most never get there as their intake/sun exposure in insufficient) because the fat cells sequester and lock away vitamin D so it's not available in the blood serum. Also, insulin is antagonistic to vitamin D. Leptin resistance, common in obesity, promotes inflammation in the body. High persistent levels of sugar, insulin and leptin are damaging to the tissues of the body, hence diabetics often get peripheral neuropathy, foot ulcers and sight degeneration. Damaged cells and micro blood vessels are particularly susceptible to further disease from viral infection. Also, type 2 diabetes becomes much more common as we age, we can put away large amounts of convenience/snacky carbohydrates in our 20's, but it catches up with us in our 40s - 50s with middle age spread and increasing carbohydrate intolerance

If that is her opinion then she ought to start by looking in the mirror - she was in a position to do something about support for weightloss etc and didn't. I've also been pretty disappointed with the quality of the 6 public health directors and assistant directors I've met. Perhaps she should have encouraged better recruitment?

Followed by an announcement that we are supporting “wet” pubs with grants to remain open instead of grants to convert to community health hubs. Honestly baffling.

If you see the rubbish food that people get in food parcels - not food banks fault - then it isn't surprising people are obese. People are given cheap carbohydrates

The poverty narrative for obesity appears to be common here, I assume it's an othering narrative, as the stats don't justify that it's purely a poverty issue. Childhood obesity, that's correlated well, double the risk. Adult male obesity, nope same risk in the highest quartile to the lowest quartile, it's not just poverty, pretending it is as every mumsnet thread does means all the "solutions" are just get the poor people to eat more fruit and less McDonalds.

[quote FlorenceandtheWashingMachine]@WoolyMammoth55 Excellent post. Thank you [/quote]
Agree. This sums it up really well.

Why the focus on obesity?
Because there's a clear link between obesity and increased mortality due to covid-19. That's why people with a bmi of >40 are being prioritised for early vaccination.

@feelingverylazytoday

Why the focus on obesity? Because there's a clear link between obesity and increased mortality due to covid-19. That's why people with a bmi of >40 are being prioritised for early vaccination.

So basically a clear link with poverty and poor mental health (and the consequences of delayed diagnosis of and medication for physical conditions).

@sirfredfredgeorge
Actually there have been a lot of reports and research by experts on the clear link between poverty and obesity. Which is the responsibility of successive governments.

Obviously there are other causes too. Mental and physical health conditions (and the medication to treat these conditions).

Again, something largely within the power if government to change, i.e. better funding and treatments for mental health issues, prompt diagnosis of physical conditions - GPs to no longer dismiss patient symptoms (especially women), no more long waiting lists for treatments (with patients left with limited mobility and pain whilst waiting), reconsidering certain medications depending on individual patients and their circumstances including vulnerability to obesity), etc.

But the most deaths per capita (Or millions) is Belgium, Spain, Italy , then the Uk.

It doesn't make sense that obesity is a leading factor of death because then the Italians and Spanish would be low on the list, as they are seen as healthy along with their Mediterranean diet

Nothing makes sense about this virus.

@SheepandCow Agree.

The current issue of the Boots magazine has an interesting article on alcohol. Too much of it lowers immunity.

bootshealthandbeauty.com/alcohol-and-coronavirus-how-to-stop-being-a-lockdown-lush/

"Plus, too much alcohol also lowers your immunity, which in turn, can make you more susceptible to illnesses, including pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndromes (ARDS). Not what you want with a lung-attacking virus around, is it"

Actually there have been a lot of reports and research by experts on the clear link between poverty and obesity.

There's a clear link between poverty and childhood obesity, there is no link between poverty and later adult male obesity, and given covid impacts obese later adult males then that's where covid and obesity discussion needs to be.

here in NZ we have eliminated COVID

You haven't eliminated COVID. Ardern is choosing to keep borders closed to manage the number of cases entering the country. There's no exit strategy until the population are vaccinated.

That is the exit strategy...vaccination.

Meanwhile, they can manage just fine without us Brits. They'll initially open their border to other clean Covid safe countries like Australia, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam.

@MercyBooth
It's as much, if not more, a vascular and inflammatory disease than a respiratory one.

But yes, alcohol in excess isn't healthy. It is a poison afterall (albeit one that's generally fine for most adults in moderation).

www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/social-determinants/social-determinants

www.rcplondon.ac.uk/news/health-inequalities-and-obesity

From the above article:
adults in the most deprived regions having almost double the prevalence of obesity compared with the least deprived (36% compared with 20%).

It might start in childhood but the impact continues into adulthood.

@Lily193

here in NZ we have eliminated COVID

You haven't eliminated COVID. Ardern is choosing to keep borders closed to manage the number of cases entering the country. There's no exit strategy until the population are vaccinated.

Well the discussion was whether it was the UK's incidence of obesity that had made Covid in the UK worse and Woolymammoth's excellent post dismissed that and placed the blame squarely at the UK governments appalling handling of it.

There is no community transmission in NZ, border entries are strictly quarantined and Ardern has deftly managed it though the strict and clear controls you described. And yes the exit plan IS vaccination and managed border entries. Which has clearly worked. All this is despite NZ having a higher rate of obesity than the UK.

So we go back to the fact that it's the UK governments mismanagement that the situation is so bad in the UK not the obesity rate.

There is no community transmission in NZ, border entries are strictly quarantined and Ardern has deftly managed it though the strict and clear controls you described. And yes the exit plan IS vaccination and managed border entries. Which has clearly worked. All this is despite NZ having a higher rate of obesity than the UK.

Better to compare with good management in Germany, or up against other Western European countries, not NZ.