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Covid

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Auto Immune disease and Vaccine

160 replies

ihearttc · 28/11/2020 16:35

Can someone more knowledgeable than me point me in the direct of where I would find information about the effects of the vaccine on people with auto immune disease? I have googled but a bit overwhelmed with information and not entirely sure what I should be looking at.
I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and only take Hydroxychloriquine (incidentally the wonder drug as suggested by Trump back in April!) but I also work in a school so I’m very keen to have the Vaccine if at all possible. I’m interested in the effects of the Vaccine on my body (I don’t have the flu vaccine as it has made me really poorly in the past) but I feel this is vital to have. Is there a specific one which is better for people with auto immune conditions and if so are we likely to be able to choose which one we have? I’m way way down the list in terms of when I will get it anyway, I’m early 40’s and I’m not the medications for immuno suppressed group.

OP posts:
trulydelicious · 04/12/2020 08:29

@CrunchyCarrot

Very helpful again. Thank you

PolarCub · 04/12/2020 12:49

As someone else with autoimmune issues I've been following this too.
I have Psoriasis (every treatment going including chemo & biologics and some very nasty reactions to the biologics!), Psoriatic Arthritis, a billion allergies (some mild but several anaphylactic ones) and a tendency to react badly to most medications.

As a head's up the Pfizer vaccine is a multi dose vial with a rubber stopper - So as I have an anaphylactic reaction to latex - this one's out for me.

MrsMigginsMate · 06/12/2020 13:57

I was speaking to my friend who is a senior nurse. She said the staff have been told that neither they, nor patients can pick and choose which vaccine they get based on any of these sorts of concerns. Basically if the manufacturer instructions say it's suitable for a certain group then they can't swap it based on their own research and worries. Its a case of 'have this one, or you won't be put on a list for any other one'.

I don't know yet if Pfizer or Moderna recommend their vaccine for people with auto immune disorders but the NHS has been told to be very strict about it..

MrsMigginsMate · 06/12/2020 14:00

As a head's up the Pfizer vaccine is a multi dose vial with a rubber stopper - So as I have an anaphylactic reaction to latex - this one's out for me.

Very good point @PolarCub and one that's worth repeating. I will mention this to BIL as he can't wear latex gloves and is high in the priority list so will most likely be offered the Pfizer one.

SirVixofVixHall · 12/12/2020 13:24

I have Hashimoto’s and Coeliac disease. Also carry an Epipen. I have been isolating all year, and feel really upset about this as I had pinned my hopes on having the vaccine reasonably soon.

tinselearedcow · 12/12/2020 13:30

SirVixofVixHall are people with Hashimoto's at increased risk from covid?

trulydelicious · 12/12/2020 17:58

@tinselearedcow

This is from the British Thyroid Foundation. Also worth checking with your specialist consultant when the time comes to decide whether to have the vaccine (and which one) or not

www.btf-thyroid.org/news/thyroid-disease-and-coronavirus-covid-19

^Covid-19 is a new virus, so we have little information on how it affects individuals with thyroid disease. However, thyroid disease is not known to be associated with increased risk of viral infections in general, nor is there an association between thyroid disease and severity of the viral infection

Is it safe for me to have the vaccine?

We await the full publication of the trial results to find out in detail about the patients with thyroid disorders that have been studied in these trials^

SirVixofVixHall · 12/12/2020 20:33

tinsel there has been so little info, and as my system generally is overreactive, I have been very cautious. I am 57 so peak age for long covid which is what I have been worried about as I struggle with chronic tiredness anyway and I have two children still in school, my youngest is 13.
Also people with badly managed hypothyroidism do tend to be prone to respiratory infections.

CrunchyCarrot · 12/12/2020 21:59

@trulydelicious Just to point out that no-one fully understands autoimmunity. If we did, we might be clearer on whether these vaccines pose a risk or not.

I'm constantly trying to learn more about autoimmunity, particularly with respect to my own disease (Hashimoto's). Will post again with anything new I manage to dig up re vaccines and autoimmunity.

SirVixofVixHall · 12/12/2020 22:08

My GP said auto-immune disease is under researched, and speculated that it was because mainly women get it.

Muchtoomuchtodo · 12/12/2020 22:14

I have hashimotos and I am in a patient facing role in the NHS and in care homes.

I had the first jab this week. I’ll keep you all posted!

trulydelicious · 13/12/2020 00:25

@CrunchyCarrot

Yes, I agree.

I also have Hashimoto and Coeliac disease

trulydelicious · 13/12/2020 00:39

@CrunchyCarrot

All the research you've linked to has been very helpful!

CrunchyCarrot · 13/12/2020 10:09

Thanks! Smile

I have found another video which I think is extremely interesting. It comes from the National Jewish Health Centre in Denver, the topic is Autoimmune diseases, the impact of Covid-19 and vaccine development. The two scientists interviewed are PhDs in Immunology, John Kappler & Philippa Marrack. In the first section Dr Kappler talks about Type I Diabetes, the second part is Dr Marrack talking about ABCs (Age-associated B-cells). Following that is a Q & A section.

Apparently people with autoimmunity have these ABC cells, and autoimmunity as we know is far more common in women than men, and they found these ABC cells are far more common in women (there's a neat graph showing this in the vid). It may be an evolutionary adaptation as these cells appear to be powerful against viruses, creating a bigger immune response to a virus (as in COVID). ABCs may be a blessing and a curse, allowing a stronger immune response (which can be good, resulting in clearing viruses faster) but not good if autoimmunity is triggered.

The video was made before the Pfizer vaccine was approved, and I don't think it really helps us decide on whether we should take it or not, but I found the subject of ABCs fascinating, and I think it's well worth a listen. Certainly Covid-19 itself triggers autoimmunity in some. The ABC part starts at around 22.30 minutes in.

Reference:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3940262/

And an interesting article on the autoimmune-like Covid-19 response:

theconversation.com/an-autoimmune-like-antibody-response-is-linked-with-severe-covid-19-146255

tinselearedcow · 13/12/2020 10:17

Thanks everyone for the information, I have hashimoto's and so wondered about the vaccine.

beingsunny · 13/12/2020 10:33

I have Hashimotos disease, I almost never get sick with anything. However when I do it takes weeks longer that normal to recover.

My immune system is working in overdrive, I'm concerned that the vaccine will not be safe in terms of me taking it and then suffering terrible long side effects.

Fortunately I'm living in Australia so cases are low and we can wait for further research.

tinselearedcow · 13/12/2020 16:42

This is not about the vaccine, but about long covid. It is slightly worrying!

www.theguardian.com/science/2020/dec/13/autoantibodies-may-be-driving-severe-covid-cases-study-shows

SirVixofVixHall · 14/12/2020 23:00

That is really worrying for those of us with auto-immune disease . Has there been no research yet on whether women with autoimmune disease are at greater risk of death or long covid ? Because that article seems to suggest both those things. Combined with being unable to have the Pfizer vaccine due to carrying Epipens, plus the worry that vaccines may also trigger autoimmune responses, I am feeling more anxious than I have for months. My dd also has Hashimoto’s.

Nixx2121 · 07/02/2021 21:31

Just read this thread and found it very interesting as I have 4 autoimmune conditions. Has anyone come across any further info re the safety of vaccines, particularly Pfizer, for people with autoimmune conditions since the last comments were 2 months ago

oldegg123 · 07/02/2021 22:11

[quote trulydelicious]@ihearttc

This is just my view

To me, mRNA technology appears risky for people who already have one or several autoimmune diseases

with mRNA technology:

mRNA is injected into the body and enters cells, where it provides instructions to produce antigens. The cell then presents the antigens to the immune system, preparing the body to fight the disease

I have concerns regarding two aspects of this treatment:

1)If you have an autoimmune condition, the body is already misinterpreting instructions and is attacking itself. How do you ensure it will interpret correctly instructions provided by mRNA?

2)If your own body is asked to make the antigen rather than it being injected in the form of a dead virus for instance, how do you ensure that the 'antigen' that your body has produced will not signal your immune system to attack other parts of your body (i.e. giving you other autoimmune diseases)?

This is another thread on this topic with more opinions where I've posted

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4088231-Autoimmune-populations-and-the-vaccine?msgid=102034588#102034588[/quote]
2)If your own body is asked to make the antigen rather than it being injected in the form of a dead virus for instance, how do you ensure that the 'antigen' that your body has produced will not signal your immune system to attack other parts of your body (i.e. giving you other autoimmune diseases)?

Whether the vaccine uses mRNA (so your cells produce the antigen) or gives you the antigen makes no difference as the end result is you will have the antigen (identical in either method) in your bloodstream, and the immune system will produce a response against it. If that antigen looks similar to a "self" antigen, that's when you run the risk of having an autoimmune response. Note that if this was the case then being infected with coronavirus directly would give you the same autoimmune response anyway.

trulydelicious · 07/02/2021 22:31

@oldegg123

Thank you. Yes, that's what should happen in theory.

The problem is that the immune system of someone with autoimmune disease usually can be unpredictable (I have first hand experience of this, having Coeliac and Hashimoto).

That's why I would prefer to wait to understand a bit better how safe/effective each vaccine (including mRNA ones) is on people with autoimmunity.

alpenguin · 07/02/2021 22:42

I haven’t done any reading on it for my sanity but I had the AstraZeneca vax on Friday. I too am on hydroxychloriquine but also a biologic & that’s why I was offered it so soon. I had mild covid last year and had awful pain in my limbs. I was warned that may be a side effect and that they may be slightly worse due to having had covid. I woke up through the night for the first time in a long time with painful joints that hadn’t bothered me since starting the biologics. It eased off over the first two days. I also have mouth ulcers today that I tend to get when run down so I’m guessing my Immune system is preoccupied. In all I feel fine. I didn’t get a stiff arm or site reaction, no fever and fatigue wasn’t anything worse than I’d normally have at this stage in my Biologic cycle.

My biggest concern is being given the AstraZeneca vaccine as it seems to be getting somewhat slated globally for poor efficacy.

ExpulsoCorona · 07/02/2021 23:04

Totally anecdotal:

I have two autoimmune conditions: Multiple sclerosis and Hashimotos and am on a DMARD for the MS. I am NHS and have both doses of the Pfizer vaccine (my appointment for the second dose was booked before the government changed to the 12 week interval). Felt a bit rough after the first dose (fever, fatigue, nausea), lasted 48 hours and then fully better. Second dose just gave me a sore arm.

I decided to go ahead with vaccination because I felt that catching Covid would be a hell of a lot worse with my medical issues than any vaccine and I've worked patient facing throughout all lockdowns. Incidentally my husband had Covid two weeks ago and I didn't catch it which was a huge relief.

MrsJohnLuther · 07/02/2021 23:24

I've got RA, sjorgens and IBD and I've had pzifer, no problems with it. My consultant said neither vaccine is live so its not an issue.

Littlemiss74 · 07/02/2021 23:35

I have RA and have had the AZ vaccine with no side effects