Moving Christmas Day

[LegoPandemic]

We’d like to see Grandparents over the festive period- it would be 3 of us, MIL (in our support bubble) and my parents. We won’t see anyone else and neither will my parents. MIL may see her 90 year old brother so that’s a third household. I would prefer her to do this before she sees DS just in case!)
DS is at school until 18th. After that we can all stay at home. We have lots of festive activities, films and Lego to do and have 2online food shops booked. Grandparents are staying at home anyway apart from walks.
I’d feel much happier to see them a few days after Christmas so maybe 28th/ 29th when we can have been isolating for a good 10 days at least. The government guidelines say 27th is the last day of being allowed to meet. So do what’s legal or do what’s safer? Are we likely to get fined? My parents live in walking distance and MIL would be driving but it’s 30 minutes. We’re all in Tier 3.
I have got some lateral flow tests as well but they aren’t that accurate so want to combine with a good period of isolation.
I could take DS out of school early but don’t want him to have to miss the fun week before Christmas. 2020 has been short on fun.

i think you're overthinking the whole thing tbh

Id do what's safer to be honest.
I think the rules are totally stupid.
Let everyone see people for 5 days and then everyone will then get ill afterwards and overwhelm the NHS.

The rules are quite simply so that boris doesn't look like a scrooge.

I'd do what's safer.

@lockedownloretta
That is true. Too much time to think!

[quote LegoPandemic]@lockedownloretta
That is true. Too much time to think![/quote]
I don't agree to be honest.

The rules are ridiculous.

But you've decided to take an approach which means that you isolate for a decent amount of time before seeing a 90 year old, because you rightly say tests aren't that accurate.

You've planned nice things for your kids to do and you're acting in the best interests of family.

I will also be breaking rules over Xmas because frankly they're just sodding pointless.

Just to add- Santa will still come on 25th! Just festive meal and presents to and from family a few days later.
DS is happy to have 2 Christmas days and 2 lots of presents and has requested pizza on actual Christmas Day!

I'm having the exact same dilemma - I'm a teacher and we have 2 children at school. I would feel so much happier seeing people in the second week of the holidays when we've all been out of school for a solid a week at least. Kind of pinning hopes on going back into Tier 1 if I'm honest

I completely understand op. We don’t intend to see my dad at Christmas as it is only a week after my son & I break up. It’s far too risky then. New Year, or a few days after Christmas, sounds much safer.

I think if you’re planning to send your child back to school after you need to stick to the rules re mixing. I get not wanting to risk relatives but it’s not fair to risk vulnerable children, staff and other parents after. I’d take her out early instead.

Kind of pinning hopes on going back into Tier 1 if I'm honest

The MPs and council leaders in my area were told by the Health Mnisiter that the chances of changing tiers on the 16th are negligible. I'm sure they'll move someone, just to give the illusion that they've reviewed it, but I wouldn't be expecting much. The reason behind this is that they're expecting a surge due to the Christmas rules, so don't want to relax restrictions only to then tighten then two weeks later.

Lego, you sound well enough informed to decide what is safest for your family. Your plan is far more sensible than trying to fit everything into five days.

I don’t think many will move down tiers, some will go up more likely. Now it’s cold many people will break the rules and mix indoors stating it it’s safe to do so at Christmas it’s ok at other times etc.

@LegoPandemic

We’d like to see Grandparents over the festive period- it would be 3 of us, MIL (in our support bubble) and my parents. We won’t see anyone else and neither will my parents. MIL may see her 90 year old brother so that’s a third household. I would prefer her to do this before she sees DS just in case!) DS is at school until 18th. After that we can all stay at home. We have lots of festive activities, films and Lego to do and have 2online food shops booked. Grandparents are staying at home anyway apart from walks. I’d feel much happier to see them a few days after Christmas so maybe 28th/ 29th when we can have been isolating for a good 10 days at least. The government guidelines say 27th is the last day of being allowed to meet. So do what’s legal or do what’s safer? Are we likely to get fined? My parents live in walking distance and MIL would be driving but it’s 30 minutes. We’re all in Tier 3. I have got some lateral flow tests as well but they aren’t that accurate so want to combine with a good period of isolation. I could take DS out of school early but don’t want him to have to miss the fun week before Christmas. 2020 has been short on fun.

I really don't think you're overthinking it. Covid incubation can be up to 10 days so it's sensible to think about having Christmas on 28th or taking your son out of school on 14th/15th Dec.

We were hoping that we would be able to mix over new year to allow us to isolate for 14days after our last day at work. We live and work in tier 3 with no SD so potentially high risk to other family who live in tier 2 and have low risk. Instead we are not going to mix at all as we feel it’s not worth the chance

Do as you see fit, but if you are not obeying the rules and Plod catches you then you run the risk of a fine.

The rules are quite simply so that boris doesn't look like a scrooge

No they are because the MPs and advisors want their Christmas too without risking another Barnard Castle type scandal.

Gove said he is going to Scotland and no one utters a word.

But when people on this board dare to say they are having a small family gathering in their own home town there is a pile on.

I could take DS out of school early but don’t want him to have to miss the fun week before Christmas
I can’t see how it’ll be a ‘fun week’ this year, @LegoPandemic
Everyone is knackered and anything that’s fun is also dangerous and not allowed. He may miss actual education, but he won’t miss fun. There won’t be any.

There will be school Christmas dinner, Christmas party with just their bubble and Christmas jumper day.
Also he loves school. It’s a lovely little school and they have done brilliantly this year.

@LegoPandemic tbh if it were me I would have to make the choice between Xmas week at school or Christmas as wanted. I would do the 14days isolation or not go at all

I don’t think you are over thinking at all, just being sensible and responsible. We were planning to move Xmas back a week too having all isolated from the 18th when the kids break up. We all work from home so this would be our best option for preventing spreading anything that is brought home from school during that last week

I don’t believe that you're overthinking either. If everyone took a responsible, thoughtful approach we might prevent a surge in hospitalisations and lockdown in January, which will be the final nail in the coffin for a number of businesses.

In your position I would let DS enjoy fun Christmas week at school (the teachers will be doing their level best to make it festive) and avoid mixing at all with anyone vulnerable such as the 90yo uncle. See him at Easter when he’s been vaccinated.

And let DS have pizza 🍕 LOL

I think a week plus lateral flow tests would be pretty okay. It would be 8 days + that day if you did it on 27th.

My eyeballing of Figure 2 in this suggests about 85% of infections become symptomatic within 8 days. 97% within 10 days. I'd expect a lateral flow test should pick up asymptomatic infection, especially if it was most likely in the last day or two of asymptomatic (is in the unlikely circumstances where you have caught it and it hasn't incubated in the average time of about 5 days, and indeed still hasn't become symptomatic after 8 days).

www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-0504

So I think 27th would be okay. I think the likelihood of getting fined on 28th is low, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of an up to £10k fine.

They should be closing the schools earlier than the 18th if we are to even consider meeting older relatives from the 23rd, don’t you think? It doesn’t feel joined up to me.

What you’re suggesting sounds the best, although if you want to follow the law, and you have lateral flow tests, then all of you do them twice weekly. Doing them frequently helps mitigate the sensitivity, and it seems likely that what they ‘miss’ is probably low viral load infection, which probably correlates with either non-infectious/dead end virus, or is early infection with virus on ascent- so do them twice weekly, to catch that. Also keep your distance none the less. Think about where teenagers positioned at dining room table, not facing granny etc. Maybe let them have a TV dinner whilst you eat at the table etc!