Couples who don't live together but can't bubble as don't live in single households

[avenueq]

...are now condemned to another three months of not seeing each other. Theoretically. Really?
I'm thinking of eg students in their twenties. Or young workers in London.
How many do you think will stick to
this?

@booboo24

I think *@wishfuldreamer* you can stay overnight at each other's houses regardless of tier restrictions if you are in a support bubble

Unfortunately not!

I am with you OP

I have stuck to all restrictions , but now it just gets too silly (and no end in sight)

Scotch egg anyone?

I will continue to see my BF and he will stay overnight. We can't move in together as my children aren't ready for that. I have an 18 yo and he lives with a parent so can't officially bubble. But it's such an arbitrary rule.

@littleharissa According to the gov.UK website you can, support bubbles are exempt, you can stay overnight with your bubble in whichever tier they are in. I've attached the screenshot as couldn't work out how to attach the link!

I would suggest you all read the actual regulations, the draft that is being debated now is on legislation.gov.uk

Regulation 3 defines linked households (aka support bubbles). Schedule 2 covers Tier 2 restrictions and Schedule 3 Tier 3. Quoting from Schedule 2, Part 1, 1(1) "No person may participate in a gathering in a Tier 2 area consisting of 2 or more people indoors". Sch 2 Pt 1 1(3) disapplies this where paras 4 and 5 apply. Para 4 is linked households and 4(2) gives Exemption One as same or linked households. Meaning that linked households are treated the same as an actual household. This is mirrored in Schedule 3 for Tier 3. Overnight stays in support bubbles are permitted.

Those of us who draft law for a living find people quoting "rules" without having actually read the Bill, Act or Regulations deeply irritating.

That's nice, but the general public want clear language and clear guidance.
We have neither.

@Chewwithyourfuckingmouthclosed its perfectly clear and its the actual law. Might be useful if a few more people read it.

Haha ok I'll just carry on with my accounts, and leave the rest to the professionals!!! I have read and interpreted the guidance and rules to the very best of my very addled brain's ability!!!! (Aren't linked households the wording used in the Scottish regulatuons?)

@booboo24 that's the term used in Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers)(England) Regulations 2020 which is currently being debated in the House.

If people don't want to read the actual law, fine but then in my opinion they can't complain if they don't understand their news outlet of choice's summary of it.

[quote RollaCola84]@Chewwithyourfuckingmouthclosed its perfectly clear and its the actual law. Might be useful if a few more people read it.[/quote]
No it isn't.
You are used to interpreting legislation, your average person on the street isn't.
I am by no means uneducated either.

If they outlawed overnight stays in support bubbles they'd have to define that. E.g. what time does 'overnight' begin and end. Are we allowed to spend all day in bed but as soon as it becomes night time it's against the law? It would never happen.

I've read the rules, guidance, law etc etc since the start of all this. I don't have the time or the concentration span to listen to a debate right now as I'm supposed to be working, but the rules as quoted by yourself just now match my undertanding and agree with what I wrote above

well, to be fair, those regs were made on the 30th of November...were they available last week when we were discussing this? I couldn't find anything (easily, anyway).

Additionally, I'm also a lawyer @RollaCola84 - and you know full well that reading legal statute is not easy for people who don't have legal training. Going backwards and forwards between sections, and trying to hold the exceptions to the subsection you're currently reading, to knit it all together is not that clear. Not to mention that the covid regs have not been models of drafting clarity, either...

@booboo24

That's really weird! I specifically looked last week for this exact reason and it said I couldn't. How bizarre

also, none of this helps couples who aren't able to form support bubbles, which is quite a lot of people (and was the original point of the thread before I side-tracked it, apologies).

@wishfuldreamer no it doesn't, and I apologise for contributing to the side tracking. I think its a disgrace that non resident partners have been excluded from this, and I wouldn't stop seeing my partner. I find the description of normal family life as "socialising", quite galling.

Some of the Covid drafting has been a bit shoddy, undoubtedly because of the timing involved but I think this is actually quite decent. Generally if more people read statute and understood the difference between law and guidance that wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion.

@littleharissa it was my interpretation at the time as they seem to say for eg in T1 rule of 6, tier 2 no mixing of households except for outdoors, and then T3 simply no mixing, they tend to only highlight the extra rules for each tier. I have to say I'm one of the ones who thinks the rules are straightforward until someone challenges one and then I can think well yes, I can see how you could interpret it that way! It's a bit of a minefield isn't it!

@wishfuldreamer no it doesn't, sorry, it's a ridiculous rule, one i became more and more comfortable with breaking with every person I spoke to, who seemed aghast that I wasn't seeing him in the first lockdown!

@booboo24 but support bubbles are one household for the purposes of the law

I know @RollaCola84 however I haven't been able to form one legally until tomorrow

I wish we had the Scottish exemption for established relationships in England. We were in tier 1 pre-lockdown so my son's student girlfriend could stay over but tier 2 now they can't meet indoors at all.

They have been really good & not even seen each other during lockdown but I've told them she's welcome to come over again now as part of our household, basically our unofficial bubble, local numbers are really coming down too so it is safer than it was.

We're really super careful but keeping them apart any more is unfair, they are not high risk people out drinking all night and shouldn't have their lives restricted down to basically nothing.

My DD is at school with her boyfriend and they sit together in most lessons. They stayed two metres apart between March and August. I'm not prepared to make them do that again. DS is in his sister's class bubble at school so I think we're fairly inextricably linked Covid-wise anyway.