Covid vaccination- hère immunity or individual protection?

[miimblemomble]

My understanding of Covid so far is that, unlike measles, mumps etc it seems that immunity doesn’t last for long, certainly not for a lifetime. So the vaccine is going to be more like the flu vaccine - offered yearly to those that are most vulnerable , to protect them individually rather than aiming for herd immunity at a population level every year.

Are there any groups that have been identified as not being able to have a Covid vaccine yet? That would need to rely on others being vaccinated rather than themselves.

Any handy immunologists around?

Hère should of course = herd

I don't think we can declare that Covid immunity doesn't last for long, not at this point. T-cell immunity has been shown to still be active in people who had Swine flu 17 years ago, so I feel that immunity will last a lot longer than we may have thought at the outset. The problem would come if the virus mutates enough so that any current immunity is no longer effective.

I can see the Covid jab becoming an annual thing though, as I cynically think Big Pharma can make a lot of money out of it, whether we actually need it or not.

I believe they are not going to give the vaccine to pregnant women, as it hasn’t been tested on them. I expect we will hear more in recent weeks.

Based on current strategy, it is both. There is no such thing as "immunity" in the sense that it is totally impossible to catch it. The aim is to reduce the severity of it - just like we do for flu. It is likely. With flu we are protected by the fact that most people have an ability to avoid / minimise infection because our bodies recognise and fight infection, even if we are not "immune" to it. Some people, for various reasons, are more at risk of not being able to fight off flu so we can vaccinate them to strengthen their responses to possible infection.

The aim is to have the same response to Covid eventually. The problem is that the wider population do not currently have the genetic memory of how to fight Covid because it is new, so the vaccine short circuits the natural build up of this memory for them. This makes them more able to resist serious infection. In the future it is likely that only those especially vulnerable would need / get the vaccine, just as with flu. The "herd" wouldn't need the vaccine regularly because they would be able to fight off infection just as they do with flu - some of them will get it but more mildly in the main, and the health service would be able to deal with the consequences of that natural process more easily.

So it isn't one or the other. Vaccinating the wider population is a way of getting us to a point which we would naturally get to, but which would take many more years to achieve, possibly generations. The vaccine will not eliminate coronavirus. It won't make anyone invulnerable to it. Barring the virus burning out, which is unlikely but which occasionally happens, it is here to stay and will join the many other viruses that we must manage on a day to day basis - and which we barely think about or worry about.

Whilst our ability to react to flu infections is much more practiced and pronounced because we have been dealing with flu for centuries, don't forget that new variations of flu can have devastating impacts (although often short lived). And "common" flu can also have devastating impacts. I have a friend currently in an induced coma and on a ventilator for pneumonia after contracting flu some weeks ago. He does not have Covid and never has. He is 50's fit, healthy, and no vulnerabilities. We are neither immune to flu, nor is it "safe" compared to Covid. Our bodies are just better at recognising it and what to do. That is where we need to be with Covid. Better ready to fight it.

@Moondust001

That’s interesting. Is that why isolated populations were so vulnerable to influenza, back in the day? Because they hadn’t evolved any resistance to it?

I’ve never had a flu shot, so I confess I don’t know who it is aimed at: vulnerable individuals ie people who are more likely to get seriously ill if they catch flu? Or the wider population- to reduce the overall spread of flu each year?

I’m not sure what you mean by “genetic memory”.. do you mean an individual’s resistance to a virus, or a population that has evolved to develop resistance ie the non-resistant have died and not passed in their genes?

I guess my underlying question was: will vulnerable people who take the vaccine be able to resume a normal life - even if a sizeable minority of non vulnerable people choose not to? Will vaccination be enough to protect an individual? I was trying to reassure my elderly parents in this respect.