Am I right re Xmas bubble?

[itsgettingweird]

My understanding is 3 households can form a bubble for Christmas.

Just those 3 households and they can't mix with others.

Here's the bit I think I understand and is important.

My family is parents, sister and DN, me and DS and brother. 4 households.

But..... my parents and sister/DN are a support bubble for childcare reasons.

I understand a support bubble counts as a single household. (I am in one with another single mum as both our ds are disabled).

So for Christmas my parents and sister count as 1 household as are a bubble?
Then brother and me/DS can meet with them and we are a household of 3 bubble?

I obviously wouldn't meet my support bubble during this time.

My mum is very ill with cancer so it's really important to us to spend time if we can (I've already barely been able to see her this year). But it's also managing the risk as her chemo makes her very immune compromised.

Anyone understand this better and confirm or deny the situation for me? Thanks

They haven't clarified whether support bubbles are one household or not for Christmas yet.

No, as there are no support bubbles in your set up (ie single adults living alone that can join another household).

A childcare bubble is another household looking after your kids, for childcare purposes only, while you’re not there. The childcare bubble must not be used for reasons other than childcare, ie socialising.

Does your brother live alone? Can he join your mum or your sister and form a support bubble?

Is your sister a single adult household? Or is it just a childcare bubble? If just a childcare bubble then they don’t count as one household. But anyway at Christmas they haven’t yet clarified the support bubble situation so we need to see what’s published. I’m your case as your mum is so ill if you can all isolate before Christmas I would just do it anyway. But if you can’t isolate you shouldn’t be seeing her regardless.

Support bubbles are one household www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family/making-a-christmas-bubble-with-friends-and-family

Gov.uk have clarified this: you would be 4 households (if none of the households contains a single adult).

2.2 If you’re in a childcare bubble
Between 23 and 27 December, you can continue to use a childcare bubble, but only if reasonably necessary for the purposes of childcare and where there are no reasonable alternatives. If you want to meet socially with the other household in your childcare bubble, you should include them in your Christmas bubble. You and the other household in your childcare bubble would count as two households towards the three household limit for Christmas bubbles.

@CodenameVillanelle

They haven't clarified whether support bubbles are one household or not for Christmas yet.

This is incorrect. Support bubbles to count as 1.

Childcare bubble is different.

@Lemons1571

No, as there are no support bubbles in your set up (ie single adults living alone that can join another household).

A childcare bubble is another household looking after your kids, for childcare purposes only, while you’re not there. The childcare bubble must not be used for reasons other than childcare, ie socialising.

Does your brother live alone? Can he join your mum or your sister and form a support bubble?

Yes there are!

All 3 of me and my siblings are eligible for support bubbles as all single adult households.

Brother and 1 have friends. Sister is in one with my parents.

Obviously brother and I would drop those if we can form a family bubble.

This is realistically my mums last unless a miricle happens

Yes, sorry I was going by what I heard on the radio earlier but I'm out of date

You're not seeing the other mum in your childcare bubble so that's irrelevant. Your parents are household 1, sister and niece household 2. You and your ds household 3. But if you have bubbles up with your brother as he is in a single person household then he can count as part of your household so you'd be ok.

If I've understood your family set up!

Your sister is in a support bubble then not a childcare one which would be fine .

My sister is in the bubble for childcare rather than support but same thing. Tbh think it's just mums calling it childcare bubble specifically because it can't be easy for her to have to choose a child!

Support bubbles don't have to be 2 households of only one adult.

It's one household with a single adult and indeterminate number of children and another household or an indeterminate number.

Then you’re fine!

The childcare bubble does not count for socialising for Christmas. It is purely got childcare. However, your DSis can form a support bubble with another household because she is a single adult household.

So, assume your DSis forms a support (rather than childcare) bubble with your parents', They are then considered to be one household.

Are you also a single adult household (you haven't mentioned a partner). If so, you could form a support bubble with another household if there is someone else. (An aunt? Grandparent? Boyfriend?).

Your DB, if in single adult household could form a support bubble with another household too.

You could have a think about any other relatives that could form support bubbles if you do want to expand the number of people you or your parents could see at Christmas.

I'm sorry to hear about your mum x

If I have understood your family correctly your sister & (under 18) niece are in your parents bubble (so 1 household) you & DS are one household and your brother is the third

Have I got that right? If so, that's your 3 household bubble.

But to be honest the critical part here (for me) is if you & siblings/parents are happy to be the Christmas Bubble and none of you will be seeing anyone outside your bubble.

HOWEVER.

There's not a hope in hell I'd be spending a long period of time inside the house with my mum if she was ill with cancer. Nor would my siblings. Your mum is so vulnerable and if any of you give her Covid she's much more likely to die of it and have to do so, on her own. I wouldn't want that for my mum.

Sorry to be so blunt 🌷

Calm yes we could actually really navigate the system!!

We won't and don't want to though. My mums is too vulnerable.

We just believed as sister is already in bubble (yeah it's for childcare but it's her only bubble so could also be the support one) that meant they didn't then have to choose between me and brother to make a 3rd.

It's very important to us to have this Christmas as a family but we are also very rule abiding family so we would break rules.

@itsgettingweird

My sister is in the bubble for childcare rather than support but same thing. Tbh think it's just mums calling it childcare bubble specifically because it can't be easy for her to have to choose a child!

this is the key bit. Mom and Sis are in a support bubble so she can help with childcare. It's a support bubble regardless of what she calls it to feel less "picky favourites". One household. You. Brother.

I

Well yes witches we realise this. But thanks for reminding me the choice is not to see my mum before she dies or have a small risk and spending 1 day with her since March which may well be out last anyway. We haven't been inside mums house since lockdown started. Only my sister and DN have and her inside theirs.

We have all already decided we will isolate anyway beforehand to limit risk and the most we will do is supermarket shop where necessary which my dad does anyway and he lives with her.

Yes, you would be three "households":
you and DS
your brother
parents/sister/DN

So as long as you are all comfortable with the risk (and key to that is whether your mum is, given she is the most vulnerable) - and in your situation I'd think it was worth it - then yes, you can. Key is that none of you can then see anyone else in the same way (overnight, mixing households etc) unless that is anyway allowed in the tier you are in - and of course at the moment none of us know which tier that will be.

It’s all clearly set out on the Government Website. Read the whole thing and it explains the rules. Specifically on bubbles + support bubbles.
A support bubble (eg 1 single person + another household) can group to form one household for Xmas. They can then group to with up to two other households to form a Two or Three household bubble. It is all here:

Existing support bubbles count as one household towards the three household limit. This means that if you are in a support bubble, you can collectively form a Christmas bubble with two other households. This applies only to support bubbles as set out in law. You should, however, consider the risks of doing so and keep your Christmas bubble as small as possible.

@itsgettingweird

Well yes witches we realise this. But thanks for reminding me the choice is not to see my mum before she dies or have a small risk and spending 1 day with her since March which may well be out last anyway. We haven't been inside mums house since lockdown started. Only my sister and DN have and her inside theirs.

We have all already decided we will isolate anyway beforehand to limit risk and the most we will do is supermarket shop where necessary which my dad does anyway and he lives with her.

Op sh'es doing childcare for a school kid and her husband is going to the supermarket, please don't worry about how much "extra" threat you pose. She's making the decision too and she has a right to do so. I hope you all have an amazing Xmas.
Is there space for you to stay over so you can make the most of it?

@AliMonkey

Yes, you would be three "households": you and DS your brother parents/sister/DN

So as long as you are all comfortable with the risk (and key to that is whether your mum is, given she is the most vulnerable) - and in your situation I'd think it was worth it - then yes, you can. Key is that none of you can then see anyone else in the same way (overnight, mixing households etc) unless that is anyway allowed in the tier you are in - and of course at the moment none of us know which tier that will be.

Mum absolutely wants this.

She's the one driving it.

Beforehand we had rule of 6 so before this lockdown was announced we planned brother, me ds and parents have Xmas day on Xmas eve. Then sister and DN on Xmas day and brother would go to a friends so he wasn't alone.

We won't be hugging etc and will be distancing etc and isolating beforehand.

But mums very pragmatic. She knows she's dying. She said the risk in her eyes is worth it as she knows we will be careful beforehand.

I guess despite being convinced we could do this I still can't actually believe we get to do it.

Spending this last Christmas together has been something we haven't thought could happen for months.

Thanks sleeping we only live 5 minutes away. My ds is disabled so needs his own home and bed. Sister is even closer.

Brother is a drive away and he may stay so he can have a drink though!

@DirtyDancing

It’s all clearly set out on the Government Website. Read the whole thing and it explains the rules. Specifically on bubbles + support bubbles. A support bubble (eg 1 single person + another household) can group to form one household for Xmas. They can then group to with up to two other households to form a Two or Three household bubble. It is all here:

Existing support bubbles count as one household towards the three household limit. This means that if you are in a support bubble, you can collectively form a Christmas bubble with two other households. This applies only to support bubbles as set out in law. You should, however, consider the risks of doing so and keep your Christmas bubble as small as possible.

Thanks. I did read it but guess it still is so much to take in that we can actually have this last Xmas. Something we haven't thought we could have for months.

And yes we'll be careful. I'm as scared of giving it to my mum so no way am I taking risks. And I've had it already so I'm even more aware I could be asymptomatic.

I will isolate before hand and I will only be seeing my family afterwards and over Xmas.

I still cannot get my head around the fact this can happen for us.

@itsgettingweird

Thanks sleeping we only live 5 minutes away. My ds is disabled so needs his own home and bed. Sister is even closer.

Brother is a drive away and he may stay so he can have a drink though!

That's great then, so you can do something together Xmas Eve if you wanted / days after. You'll have an amazing few days