Autoimmune populations and the vaccine

[stopgap]

Does anyone know if there is data on any of the three leading vaccines and their impact on people with autoimmune diseases? Or were the vaccines solely tested on healthy populations?

I don’t know I’m afraid, but I will bump and follow you because I would be interested in the answer too.

I want to take the vaccine, I really do. I’m an ex-pat and usually travel to the UK and Europe twice a year to see family. But I am nervous about the vaccine and the fact that it’s new technology (I’m in the US, so would presumably be offered the Pfizer or Moderna products).

I’m U.K. based but feel similarly. I’ve been WFH and pretty much self isolating all the way through, so my vague plan is to hang back and carry on like this until the vaccine has been in use for a while.

It would be so helpful to know more.

It sure would.

I’m not a total sceptic. I was vaccinated to the hilt before my Green Card appointment, and my kids are fully vaccinated, but I did develop an autoimmune disease six weeks after getting a DTaP booster and flu shot, and that detail has never sat well with me.

I don't know about data but I was listening to one of the Astra Zeneca scientists talking yesterday and they said their vaccine was safe and has been tested on those with autoimmune conditions.

I suffer from several autoimmune conditions & always react badly to the flu vaccine, I am having serious doubts about having any of the Covid vaccinations until there is more research in to how they behave in anyone with an autoimmune condition.

I know when they were asking for volunteers for the Oxford trial, at the time I applied they wanted people with co-morbidities. So I'm guessing yes, they must have trialled lots of people with various illnesses.

I don’t know the manufacturer/ developer but my NHS trust when asking for volunteers wanted anyone between 18-65, more the better/ encouraged if you had an underlying issue. Just warfarin users and/ or pregnant weren’t allowed.

@stopgap

Does anyone know if there is data on any of the three leading vaccines and their impact on people with autoimmune diseases? Or were the vaccines solely tested on healthy populations?

If they are live vaccines, I wouldn't be able to touch them with a barge pole. No idea if they are or not, as to be honest, I've not read anything about them.

From my understanding it is a synthetic vaccine which means it won't be a live one. My son is immune compromised so can't have live ones, so we are very careful to make sure any vaccine he has isn't live.

I have many autoimmune illnesses. I definitely would have the vaccine despite all this.
I can't have it for other reasons but they're not to do with those particular illnesses.

Cant answer your question but, anecdotally, autoimmune disease seems to make many people vulnerable to long COVID. Having tried that, I'll be eagerly queuing for the vaccine.

The Oxford vaccine uses a live attenuated virus as the carrier of the 'spike'. No-one has formed a view on this specidfic vaccine, but quite likely that it may be contraindicated for those who cannot receive any live vaccines. But as it is unlike any previous human vaccine, perhaps the answer will be different

The mRNA vaccines use part of the corpse of a dead virus, so I can't see why they would not be safe. The question here is whether a wonky immune system is capable of forming a response to a dead fragment

nether - the Oxford vaccine IS NOT a live vaccine.

The Oxford vaccine uses a live attenuated virus as the carrier of the 'spike'.

That clears up what they were talking about yesterday with their animations on Sky News. To me it seemed like a live one.

Whilst I could be classed as a scientist (very loosely!!), it's all related to computers and I was crap at proper science at school

THE OXFORD VACCINE IS NOT A LIVE VACCINE

To me, mRNA technology appears risky for people who already have one or several autoimmune diseases (which are very common by the way, think autoimmune thyroid disease in women)

with mRNA technology:

mRNA is injected into the body and enters cells, where it provides instructions to produce antigens. The cell then presents the antigens to the immune system, preparing the body to fight the disease.

I have concerns regarding two aspects of this treatment:

1)If you have an autoimmune condition, the body is already misinterpreting instructions and is attacking itself. How do you ensure it will interpret correctly instructions provided by mRNA?

2)If your own body is asked to make the antigen rather than it being injected in the form of a dead virus for instance, how do you ensure that the 'antigen' that your body has produced will not signal your immune system to attack other parts of your body (i.e. giving you other autoimmune diseases)?

@stopgap

It sure would.

I’m not a total sceptic. I was vaccinated to the hilt before my Green Card appointment, and my kids are fully vaccinated, but I did develop an autoimmune disease six weeks after getting a DTaP booster and flu shot, and that detail has never sat well with me.

I'm curious about this point. You've assumed that the DTaP booster and flu shot caused your autoimmune disease, but it may just be correlation. If there is any history of autoimmune diseases in your family (e.g. vitiligo, Menieres disease, lupus, hypothyroidism etc) then that strengthens the notion of correlation vs causation to me. Being female is a risk factor for autoimmune responses as well, unfortunately (yet another perk of female bodies).

I have an underactive thyroid (possibly as a result of my darling children; pregnancy can sometimes make it happen) and a family history of all of the above, but am still having the vaccine as soon as they can fling it at me!

Public health England is still looking at all of the vaccines and will be considering how they could impact every health problem. Specialist consultants will get their chance to then do make their own informed decisions on their group of patients. Speaking to my (autoimmune) Consultant on Friday he said that the Oxford vaccine is safe for me and his other patients. A colleague of his (he works globally) is part of the team. So all these questions will be able to be answered once Public Health England has its hands on all of the vaccine information.

There was a good, simple explanation by Jonathan Van-Tam on how the two main vaccines work. They don't contain the live virus.

@trulydelicious

To me, mRNA technology appears risky for people who already have one or several autoimmune diseases (which are very common by the way, think autoimmune thyroid disease in women)

with mRNA technology:

mRNA is injected into the body and enters cells, where it provides instructions to produce antigens. The cell then presents the antigens to the immune system, preparing the body to fight the disease.

I have concerns regarding two aspects of this treatment:

1)If you have an autoimmune condition, the body is already misinterpreting instructions and is attacking itself. How do you ensure it will interpret correctly instructions provided by mRNA?

2)If your own body is asked to make the antigen rather than it being injected in the form of a dead virus for instance, how do you ensure that the 'antigen' that your body has produced will not signal your immune system to attack other parts of your body (i.e. giving you other autoimmune diseases)?

1. If you have an autoimmune disease then your body is overreacting, not misinterpreting. It's doing what it should do, only way too much; it has no difficulties in understanding the task, only when to stop. So it should do what the mRNA vaccine is 'asking' it to do perfectly well.

2. The whole point of an antigen is that it primes the immune system to attack that particular thing if it sees it again. It will have been carefully chosen to be as distinct as possible from anything your body makes (it's possible to compare protein/antigen structures ahead of time, there are some excellent computer modelling progammes that can be used to do so. Anything to similar to human proteins would not be considered a good target due to exactly these fears).

Personally I'm hoping for the Oxford one because I have two auto immune conditions (mild thankfully). I'm also more trusting of it because I know scientists on the research team and they have had it themselves!

@trulydelicious well as the alternative to the vaccine is coronavirus itself, which also gets into your cells, hijacked your DNA and fucks with your immune system (cytokine storm anyone?), I'll go for the vaccine.

Viral infections are also common triggers for autoimmune disease. Although in my case pregnancy plus genetic disposition was what did it.

@ContessaDiPulpo

Yes, I see what you are saying. It still seems risky and complex to me in the context of an autoimmune disease (which for many autoimmune diseases the trigger is still not known)

it has no difficulties in understanding the task, only when to stop

The instruction of when to stop is still an instruction that the immune system is misinterpreting then. It's still misinterpreting instructions

I'll definitely have it if I"m offered it. i have some possible auto-immune issues with over-reaction to histamine, which worries me a bit as it sounds like that can be one of the risk factors for more severe covid effects.

I'm also interested in vaccine non-responders. I have had both measles and rubella after having vaccines as a child. I've had lots of other vaccines too, and not had those diseases, but they were ones that I'd be much less likely to come in contact with, so it's not too surprising. From what I've read, sometimes non-response is to the specific thing the vaccine is for, and other times it's a more general pattern in the person being vaccinated.

I wonder if the antibody tests will show whether people have developed antibodies from the vaccine - presumably they must as they were used in the studies, but whether it's the same test as used elsewhere or something different, I don't know. And I wonder if the antibody tests will still be available long term. I'd like to be able to check that I have responded to the vaccine, and to have a different one if not. I'd pay privately if needed. I've no idea if any of this would be possible though.

I don't know how much they looked into anyone who developed the disease but who had the vaccine. Did those people have antibodies? Did they develop the disease before the vaccine took effect? Did they have other conditions? Immune issues? etc. It's something I would like to read more about.

Thanks for the input. If anything, I suspect it would be prudent to see if I can get the AstraZeneca vaccine Stateside, given that one uses more established technology.