Minimal risk in visiting 86-year-old mum?

[Tryingtofindabalance]

My sister wants to keep visiting our mum, who as she’s in her 80s is obviously high risk. Sister has three teen DDs in secondary and college. She thinks that as we are in the South West the risk is minimal. (One hour’s drive away.)

Am I overreacting to think this is crazy?

I live with mum, so she has company and care. DSis has decided that the risk is minimal, so all responsibility to be safe is now on me. I get to be the over-cautious busybody stopping her see her DM.

DM wavers depending who she’s speaking to.

@Tryingtofindabalance

That’s really sad, *@PrincessNutNuts*.

"The trouble with this year is that everyone knows you're in" my mum says.

That’s how I feel, @middleager. I hope your son gets through it as smoothly as possible.

DSis would probably not come rather than stay outside, she dismissed my suggestion at SD last time.

She did say that she wouldn’t come if we were in a high risk area, but I don’t feel able to weigh up the relative risks in different areas to the point of deciding a visit is OK. And I can’t see how she can.

Aww, @PrincessNutNuts. So true.

Your sister is being selfish. I personally know someone who has just passed it on to their 83 year old father. Ironically its the daughter who is the most sick at the moment. It seems a lot of people think that covid is something that happens to other people...

My sympathy is with your sister. How unutterably cruel to have lost your father in a situation where she’d been kept away from him. Of course she wants to see her mother, in case the same happens again.

It’s not just about what your mum and your sister need and want. You matter too.

You live there as well, so how you feel about potentially being exposed is also a factor.

Not to mention the fact that if your mum gets ill, you’ll be the one caring for her, not your sister (or even your mum caring for you).

As such, I think social distancing with no sleepover as conditions would be a very reasonable compromise. After lockdown is lifted.

Thanks OP 🙏

Deciding that Covid happens only to other people does seem to be one way of coping, @Northernsoullover.

Lockdown 1 ended in May, @HeddaGarbled. Your characterisation of the situation is way off. The irony of your sympathy is that DSis is potentially the main risk to DM’s health. DM is very healthy, no pre-existing conditions, on no medications, and we are able to have a reasonable quality of life while taking very minimal risks at the moment.

I think you need to firmly say no to your sister at this point. The fact that she is willing to break lockdown rules and sees the risk as minimal suggests to me that she will probably be allowing her DC to break lockdown rules. Obviously there is still quite a high risk even if he children are keeping to the rules, but every additional contact increases the risk. With a vaccine apparently just around the corner for the over 80s, now feels like a particularly inappropriate time to be taking risks.

I pointed this out to her when she wanted to come up
In the last lockdown, @PirateCatQueen:
Not to mention the fact that if your mum gets ill, you’ll be the one caring for her, not your sister

She just said she’d come up and help.

I’m finding her willingness to stick her head in the sand and put her own feelings first quite upsetting. She doesn’t usually come up this often, but I guess it’s understandable after losing DF. He was very difficult and I think she’s feeling quite a bit of guilt.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, it’s good to be able to talk it through.

Agree about the timing, @LilyPond2. I think she wants to bring her family up for Christmas 🤦🏻‍♀️ It’s a kind of weird denial. Perhaps the fact that she’s an anti-vaxxer is relevant?

The irony is that I’ve had to pretty much beg her to stay in touch with DM by phone during the first lockdown and since (and she’s fine with phones).

Oh god, she’s just stuck in an emotional loop isn’t she @Tryingtofindabalance. She’s not going to listen to reason.

Could you do something to lessen the emotional distance? You might have done one this already though.

DH got an Echo Show for MIL earlier in the year so she could chat to people, especially grandkids, and see them onscreen. It’s made her a lot happier with less in person contact. It’s made a difference to DH too.

FIL died at the beginning of lockdown, so it’s a similar situation.

What do you mean by stuck in an emotional loop, @PirateCatQueen?

Again, I practically begged her to skype mum in lockdown 1. It only happened once. Perhaps better tech would help. I’ll have a look at an Echo Show.
Thanks

This explains emotional loops conscious.is/blogs/the-cognitive-emotive-loop-what-it-is-why-it-keeps-you-stuck-and-how-to-break-free

She believes that the only way for her to feel better just now is to see your mum. So she just dismissed everything that doesn’t fit in with that, or seizes on anything that does.

Hmm, that’s interesting, @PirateCatQueen. I’m caught up in plenty of those myself I’ll read it again in the morning - thank you.

Also, I think she and mum both find sorting out my dad’s stuff therapeutic, and she’d like to be here getting on with something practical. Phone calls don’t make her feel any better, although mum loves them. I think that kind of fits in with what you’re saying?

Yeah, it does. Would sending your sister a box of your dad’s stuff to sort maybe help? Or something if his as a keepsake. DM kept DGF overcoat for years.

Another thing might be something that smells like DM or DF (or both). I keep a bottle of Chanel no5 in the house because DM wore it all her adult life and it makes me feel better when I miss her to spritz some on. Hits at a very emotional level.

Or maybe some nostalgic food? Something she and DM/DF all used to eat together, or some of their favourites. I sometimes eat an ice-cream snickers, even though I’m a bit ‘meh’ about them myself, just because my mum loved them and they remind me of her in a good way. Or could you and your mum bake her a childhood favourite biscuit or something?

DGM used to make puff pastry mincemeat pies at Christmas for years after DGF died, and DM and DAuntie used to wolf them down, because they were DGFs favourite, even though they were neither of them that fussed by them whilst he was alive.

I think smell and taste help us access memories on an emotional level.

Thanks, @PirateCatQueen. She has some things of his. I’m not sure about food etc yet. She seems to be wanting to give all the responsibility to me by saying ‘if you’re not happy then that’s decided’. No mention of mum’s wishes. And saying that I’m being inconsistent as I didn’t worry before... her last visit was for dad’s funeral.

Apparently mum thought this was sorted, and DSis wouldn’t be visiting in the immediate future. She was surprised about the suggestion for this weekend. It obviously won’t go ahead, but I’m finding it really difficult to cope with my DSis’ attitude. I’m trying to put it down to grief.

I live in the south west. We were in tier one before lockdown, but numbers are spiralling with a high number in secondary and primary schools.

Also, we're not meant to be going in other people's houses until at least 2 December, so she shouldn't be visiting you indoors. I think you'd be justified in not allowing her into your home as it's going against guidelines. Your Mum doesn't need a bubble for support or company as she has you.

Can you set something up on zoom/similar for them? If your sister really wants to see her, is your Mum capable of a short walk, perhaps your sister carrying some coffee so they can sit down for a chat with a warm drink.

Yes, that’s my understanding of the SW situation too, @ifonly4 - that we’ve been so lucky compared to many areas but cases have risen a lot since the summer. Possibly she’ll accept the alternative options, but going on what’s happened before, I think reduced contact is more likely. I hope not.

What about the second week of the school holidays? So the teen grandkids haven’t been to school/college for 10 days?

It's totally up to your mum.

I've got children in secondary and primary and my 86 year old dad comes to stay for a long weekend every month.

He says he doesn't give a monkeys if he catches covid and dies, it's better to see his family than potentially spend his last days bored stupid sat on his own (he's not ill, but your know, at 86 you've done well to get there).

@Tryingtofindabalance

Apparently mum thought this was sorted, and DSis wouldn’t be visiting in the immediate future. She was surprised about the suggestion for this weekend. It obviously won’t go ahead, but I’m finding it really difficult to cope with my DSis’ attitude. I’m trying to put it down to grief.

That's very good of you, but you'd think someone recently bereaved would want to do all they can not to endanger their other parent, wouldn't you?

Assuming your mum is compos mentis, it is surely her decision?

I feel really uncomfortable with posts like that made by @TheStripes which imply a parent should or ought to or has a right to make a child feel guilty if an elderly relative dies after seeing them. There may be no cause and effect there at all and who would wish guilt on a child?

Your mum is in good health and has a good chance of making it in good health through the next months, or possibly even weeks, until a vaccine. She also lives with you and has that support, and as you say is not desperate for a visit in that sense. I think if I were in your position I would be gentle but firm with your sister. I know you are all grieving and it is so hard for all of you, but it won't do your sister any good to be the cause of more grief.