Temporary bubbles for Xmas

[treesliding]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pms-winter-plan-at-a-glance-what-to-expect-when-lockdown-ends-12138882

Just read this and they are talking about temporary bubbles being allowed for the relaxation days over Xmas - possibly up to 3 households. I guess creating new bubbles and those people being the only people you see reduces risk but likely means some tough decisions across families.

22-28 December is a lot of days... why not NY Eve?

@EatDessertFirst
I suspect it's a financial thing. I don't know how much Eid & Diwali bring to the economy but I suspect this Christmas 'relaxation' is all to do with money. Let's face it, after Leicestershire & Greater Manchester being under local restrictions as long as they were, should show the Tories don't give a damn about whether the average Joe sees family or not.

It's like the "extended bubble" thing they used to have in Wales, which all my Welsh friends said was far too complicated to work as they couldn't define a "closed" bubble.

I can't see how this will work with the average family. DH and I were thinking that (if allowed) we would see my parents and his parents (at 2 different times) and not bother with siblings. But my parents will want to see my siblings' families and DH's parents will want to see his siblings' families, so there's no way we can make a closed bubble. And we can't just see my side or just DH's side without causing huge amounts of upset. So in reality, we will see no one. But many people would choose to ignore the bubbles and just see everyone. Something akin to Rule of 6 or 2 households mixing indoors would be better imo.

@TicTacTwo that’s fine with me I usually have NY eve party. I don’t really want one this year.

Thank you @ Racoonworld. I can hear MIL now "we won't be seeing you this Christmas because AlexisRose will want to see her family"

I feel crap about it, but xmas day we're going to have 4 households, and short of a total ban on households mixing, it's going to be those 4 households. I don't really care what arbitrary number the government comes up with. We'll have DP's mum and dad, my mum and dad, and my brother and his gf.
I feel like maybe that's selfish? But everyone is an adult and capable of assessing risk, so that's our plan, basically regardless of what Bodge says

Eid and Diwali are HUGE in my area so the impact here may be skewed in terms of local economy.

Christmas is being dangled as a carrot to make sure Joe public behaves. The economy is screwed already. Its not long till civil unrest will rear its ugly head so they are throwing crumbs to keep us in line.

I think should only be 2 days. Cases will go through the roof!

It’s going to be a very difficult for us if the rule is 3 or 4 households as reported today. We both have divorced parents so immediately that 5 households including us. Add in our siblings, that’s 7 households

It’s going to be a very difficult discussion about who we do and don’t see this Christmas

This has too much potential to go wrong. Most people will, at best, stick to three households at a time, rather than a closed circuit of 3 bubbles... and it sounds absolutely impossible to police.

We only have one set of parents, so it's okay for us theoretically... they're desperate to see DH. But they'll also want to see the wider family - his mum has two siblings and typically sees them often, and his dad has one sibling who is by themselves... it doesn't even work with a small family.

We were planned to spend the day together and see no-one, but his parents are pretty upset about it. They're struggling with not being able to see us, so if it's allowed, there will be pressure to go and see them.

Selfishly I'd rather the rules stayed as they are and we weren't in lockdown for so long. I miss seeing my close friends, the in-laws are lovely and I miss them too, but I'd live with video calls and a weird Christmas to be able to spend a more normal year with them next year.

I feel like maybe that's selfish? But everyone is an adult and capable of assessing risk, so that's our plan, basically regardless of what Bodge says

Not directed at this poster, but all those who think like this:
The risk isn't just yours if you get Covid-19. It affects anyone who you infect subsequently at work, school, in hospital if you require treatment, the families of those you infect, all the pupils in the year-group that has to close and do home-learning because one of your DC get Covid-19.
It is not just your risk and the consequences ripple far beyond your Christmas bubble.

But ultimately the buck stops with Boris and his advisors, not those who just do what he says they are allowed to do.
He is cowardly and vain.

I did see somewhere that it might be from Xmas eve for 4/5 days but I do wonder if the closed bubble should just be for Xmas day then it's just who you spend the day with. For 5 days you could try and see lots of people which complicates bubble completely.

Although I just saw the Metro reporting that Boris hasn't made a call on how many families can form a bubble or how many days the relaxation will be for yet, as SAGE are concerned about three being too many, and the devolved administrations need to consult their own cabinets... So those details won't be announced tomorrow.

Not exactly a beacon of trustworthiness, but they seem to have got most of the "leaks" right so far.

The family fall outs this is going to cause will be absolute hell.

Would rather have a brighter January with lower cases and a vaccine doing its bit. Plan a big Easter instead Boris!

@treesliding surely the bubble means just the same people over the 5 days? It doesn’t mean different people each day or that wouldn’t be a bubble?

[quote Lifeispassingby]@treesliding surely the bubble means just the same people over the 5 days? It doesn’t mean different people each day or that wouldn’t be a bubble?[/quote]
Yes - that's kind of what I meant, sorry.

5 days of 1 bubble means lots of people will want to be in the same bubble - logistics are really difficult trying to please everyone. But if it was just a Xmas bubble for Xmas day (and no indoor socialising otherwise) it just seems simpler as it's who you spend xmas day with only.

Selfishly I would be happy to sacrifice Christmas if it meant that schools stay open more after. My ds has his GCSEs coming up and I worry Christmas mixing is going to create a spike that has schools closing even more than now. However I appreciate that everyone has different priorities and it will be nice for extended families to mix.

Exactly @LurgyOnTheLoose I totally agree with you. People just think well I WFH and I get my shopping delivered I don’t see anybody but they forget how many contacts their DC’s have at school, they don’t count going to the chemist, or popping to the newsagents and as well as seeing however many family members this Christmas they will also meet up with friends and possibly organise play dates for DC and have friends in for drinks etc etc.

How in earth will it ever be policed, those that rigidly stick to the rules will be fine but those wanting to mix with 5/6 households will just do it anyway, especially over the course of the different days if it's suppised to be static bubbles.

Starting to look like a slow build up from the 3rd, resulting in a lot of cases late december then a lockdown mid winter followed by light at the end of the tunnel by march/ april.

Bubble of 3 households would suit us just fine. Seems a bit unfair for many though. And..pointless also if it means other estrictions have to go on for longer?! I would much prefer a distanced xmas, and things 'back to normal'(or some form of normality) faster. But some wuld be unhappy whatever happened though so..meh.

@Lifeispassingby

doesnt change anything for us, we are likely to be tier 3 after lockdown and I cannot understand how we can mix for Xmas but not the day before or day after that. DH and I both work in high risk area and in jobs without social distancing so it still seems irresponsible to mix with others even if it is ‘allowed’

I agree with this.

Just because you’re allowed to mix doesn’t mean you have to. No way am I going to mix inside with my parents knowing that the dc have been in school. It’s just a day, I would prefer to wait and see them when there are less cases and less risk

@Willow4987

It’s going to be a very difficult for us if the rule is 3 or 4 households as reported today. We both have divorced parents so immediately that 5 households including us. Add in our siblings, that’s 7 households

It’s going to be a very difficult discussion about who we do and don’t see this Christmas

Then don't see any other households. Or split into 3 bubbles, one of 3 households and two of 2 households. It wouldn't be compulsory to have a bubble, and if you do the number of households would be a maximum not a target. There were very similar posts on here during the first lockdown about the possibility of 10 person closed bubble. There were so many people complaining that 10 isn't enough, they have 13 people they absolutely must see and who on earth do they choose.

If whatever arrangements the government puts into place don't allow your household to see all the people you would usually see, either don't take part at all and spend Christmas in your own household, or discuss with the other households to agree a plan which fits the rules.

The problem with the proposed temporary Xmas bubble is it doesn't protect people from Covid. My parents are in their late 70's and live too far away for us to anything other than stay with them or vice versa. I have an eight year old in school and my only option is to take him out for a week and for us all to self isolate for 14 days before seeing them over Xmas