The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

@mrshoho I’m disappointed with our SLT too. They will not accept that we cannot maintain 2m in every classroom at all times. It’s our fault if we don’t stay in the box and basically teach from a chair behind a desk. They just parrot the lines about how safe we are.

There’s a discussion on another thread about the role of the grammar system in Kent driving infection, eg family with three children, one at boys’ grammar, one at girls’, one at sec mod, all travelling to different places on public transport, interacting with many others doing similar and then returning to family. Apparently Kent is experiencing a very high spike (in places).
Disclaimer: I don’t favour grammar systems, I think they do more harm than good generally, but I’m not vehemently against them.

2m IS NOT SOME MAGIC PROTECTION - it DOESN'T WORK IF YOU'RE INDOORS FOR HOURS AS IN CLASSROOMS. Especially if no masks or ventilation.

The DfE is clearly too stupid to understand that what is most important in classroom settings are:

DURATION OF EXPOSURE

AEROSOLS

VENTILATION

MITIGATION (masks, class size probably more important than social distancing, particularly if no ventilation)

What is wrong with these people? I am offended my taxes pay for such idiots to be in charge (the Ministers and MPs but also come on civil servants)

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

From the classroom scenario

If two hours are spent in the classroom with an infected teacher, without taking any measures to counter the number of aerosols, there is the risk that up to 12 students could become infected - note in the scenario students are at individual socially distanced desks NOT TRUE OF UK SCHOOLS.

In the scenario even children at the back of the class get infected way more than 2m away because - DURATION OF EXPOSURE, AEROSOLS

From same scenario
If everyone is wearing a face mask, the number that could become infected drops to five. In real outbreaks, it has been noted that any of the students could become infected irrespective of their proximity to the teacher as the aerosols are distributed randomly around the unventilated room - but FACE MASKS PROTECT AGAINST SEVERE DISEASE so for those 5 infected they would likely be less severely ill - but note 2m IS NOT PROTECTIVE

If the room is ventilated during the lesson, either with fresh air or mechanically, and the class is stopped after an hour in order to completely refresh the air, the risk drops dramatically

Where's the DfE guidance saying rooms need to have air refreshed every hour, Gav? What about all those state schools with windows that don't open - where are the builders going in to fix it? Where's the money?

I am so bloody angry. Sorry about the caps - that's for the hard of thinking at the DfE.

The 2m guidance was never meant to replace the idea that limiting length of contact was just as if not more important.

Both of my children, even the 3 year old, understand this.

I'm beginning to think my 3 year old could also run the DfE better than Gavin.

@IloveJKRowling

2m IS NOT SOME MAGIC PROTECTION - it DOESN'T WORK IF YOU'RE INDOORS FOR HOURS AS IN CLASSROOMS. Especially if no masks or ventilation.

The DfE is clearly too stupid to understand that what is most important in classroom settings are:

DURATION OF EXPOSURE

AEROSOLS

VENTILATION

MITIGATION (masks, class size probably more important than social distancing, particularly if no ventilation)

What is wrong with these people? I am offended my taxes pay for such idiots to be in charge (the Ministers and MPs but also come on civil servants)

english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

From the classroom scenario

If two hours are spent in the classroom with an infected teacher, without taking any measures to counter the number of aerosols, there is the risk that up to 12 students could become infected - note in the scenario students are at individual socially distanced desks NOT TRUE OF UK SCHOOLS.

In the scenario even children at the back of the class get infected way more than 2m away because - DURATION OF EXPOSURE, AEROSOLS

From same scenario
If everyone is wearing a face mask, the number that could become infected drops to five. In real outbreaks, it has been noted that any of the students could become infected irrespective of their proximity to the teacher as the aerosols are distributed randomly around the unventilated room - but FACE MASKS PROTECT AGAINST SEVERE DISEASE so for those 5 infected they would likely be less severely ill - but note 2m IS NOT PROTECTIVE

If the room is ventilated during the lesson, either with fresh air or mechanically, and the class is stopped after an hour in order to completely refresh the air, the risk drops dramatically

Where's the DfE guidance saying rooms need to have air refreshed every hour, Gav? What about all those state schools with windows that don't open - where are the builders going in to fix it? Where's the money?

I am so bloody angry. Sorry about the caps - that's for the hard of thinking at the DfE.

Exactly, I do not understand why there has not been guidance to advise refreshing of classroom air as regularly as possible. This along with mask wearing would be the cheapest and easiest way to protect teaching staff and limit transfer between students and subsequently back to families.

Some other European countries seem to be doing this.

Yes quite right. It seems the 2m distance is the stick to beat staff with and blame us with but there are other (and more relevant) serious issues that we have no control over such as the poor ventilation and class and room size. Surely though the government cannot down the line say that they were following the science when there are validated studies proving these risks.

Face masks and hourly ventilation would be a very good strategy, I think.

And overall should save money on supply teachers, testing and ill people in hospital plus boost the economy by keeping rates lower so more things can open up.

It seems utterly bizarre they're not doing it.

www.tes.com/news/covid-cases-secondary-pupils-reach-new-daily-high?amp&__twitter_impression=true

“Figure 7: Over the most recent week, increases in positivity rate can only be seen in secondary school-age children”

FANCY THAT

I have been following this thread and agree with everything you are saying. Just watching the news and all the talk of how the latest lockdown has only levelled off rates of infection and we still need to bring it down. Lots of head rubbing about how to bring rates down lower. But still no mention of schools which seem to have been completely forgotten about.

I think we might need a third 'secondary schools are totally stuffed' thread.

I am sure noble can come up with better but here's a few thoughts

Secondary schools are totally stuffed: 'nothing to see here' lies DfE

Secondary schools are totally stuffed: DfE announces new school tiers of 'on', 'off', 'fucked', or 'completely fucked'.

Secondary schools are totally stuffed: 'don't worry your little heads, Mums' mansplains DfE

Secondary schools are totally stuffed say scientists: 'no they're not' loudly lies DfE continuing 'look at those flying pigs!'

Sorry, I will stop now.....but just heard a close contact of DD is off sick and having a covid test so.... I am angry, fearful and pissed off. Also wondering if I just don't send her in until results know. Very well might not be covid, but if it is, she's in school with all the other close contacts.

Should we open betting on how long test results will take and how long the kids will be in school spreading whatever illness it is prior to this?

I’ve just emailed World at One to ask why, though they briefly reported rates of infection highest in secondary pupils and young people but NO discussion or analysis of this.

I really do think D-notice on this.

So fed up back into tier three we go. I am isolating again after being back in school for one week. Four cases up to now in my class. How is this ever going to get better. Go to work , take the risks but oh no we can’t open the pub / restaurant where I can sit much more safely with my own household.
The DFE can shove their post. I feel and am at risk working in a school.

Ninbuscl exactly we haven’t even managed to achieve reduced infections with this lockdown.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see what January will bring.

Three local schools have closed completely, (1 is primary just reopened) 1secondary and one primary closed for about a week each.

Thanks IloveJKRowling I really needed the laugh with thread titles. I liked the mansplaining one.

We are tier three. And schools are fucked.

10 step plan for schools;

1. Scream that schools are safe citing totally fudged data

1. Realise they aren't and change the guidelines to try and hide how many schools are now struggling and who can go home to isolate (need to keep the attendance figures up!)

1. Hide Gav for a few months so he can't be questioned.

1. Keep putting out propaganda about schools being safe including photos taken in the biggest classroom ever with 5 students sitting well over 2m apart (and only 1 per table)

1. Gav has a sneaky meeting with Bojo to tell him schools are fucked possibly keeping the infection rate up.

1. Merry Christmas everyone... now go mix

1. In the new year when things get even worse in schools blame the public for daring to mix over Christmas despite being told they could (Deja vu anyone?!)

1. Make a statement that schools need better measures because the public (and highlighted everywhere TEACHERS in particular) can't behave themselves when it comes to household mixing. To decide on the measures they won't speak with the enemy unions and teachers but they will spin a wheel consult with their mates experts at a booze up in the house of commons bar special emergency meeting.

1. Declare new evidence/science/info from other countries has recently come to light (remember Gav has been locked up he hasn't heard/seen anything that everyone on this thread has) that shows that masks in classrooms, reduced class sizes (rotas) etc will help bring the rates down.

10. Make a big hoo-hah about 10 billion being given to our mates invested in education to increase measures in schools to make them safe, which will include masks, hand washing stations, mobile classrooms etc. Though due to the high demand during these unprecedented times delivery and installation will never happen may take some time.

Gav gets a gold star for being a clever boy and disappears just as the impending 2021 exams fiasco kicks off.

Keep up the propaganda about the 10 billion investment and more staged photos to try and convince people they are doing something whilst waiting for the vaccine to be rolled out to enough people so that schools actually do become safe again.

@AzPie

10 step plan for schools;

1. Scream that schools are safe citing totally fudged data

1. Realise they aren't and change the guidelines to try and hide how many schools are now struggling and who can go home to isolate (need to keep the attendance figures up!)

1. Hide Gav for a few months so he can't be questioned.

1. Keep putting out propaganda about schools being safe including photos taken in the biggest classroom ever with 5 students sitting well over 2m apart (and only 1 per table)

1. Gav has a sneaky meeting with Bojo to tell him schools are fucked possibly keeping the infection rate up.

1. Merry Christmas everyone... now go mix

1. In the new year when things get even worse in schools blame the public for daring to mix over Christmas despite being told they could (Deja vu anyone?!)

1. Make a statement that schools need better measures because the public (and highlighted everywhere TEACHERS in particular) can't behave themselves when it comes to household mixing. To decide on the measures they won't speak with the enemy unions and teachers but they will spin a wheel consult with their mates experts at a booze up in the house of commons bar special emergency meeting.

1. Declare new evidence/science/info from other countries has recently come to light (remember Gav has been locked up he hasn't heard/seen anything that everyone on this thread has) that shows that masks in classrooms, reduced class sizes (rotas) etc will help bring the rates down.

10. Make a big hoo-hah about 10 billion being given to our mates invested in education to increase measures in schools to make them safe, which will include masks, hand washing stations, mobile classrooms etc. Though due to the high demand during these unprecedented times delivery and installation will never happen may take some time.

Gav gets a gold star for being a clever boy and disappears just as the impending 2021 exams fiasco kicks off.

Keep up the propaganda about the 10 billion investment and more staged photos to try and convince people they are doing something whilst waiting for the vaccine to be rolled out to enough people so that schools actually do become safe again.

10 out of 10. Absolutely 100% this.

Yes, they're going to try with the 'households mixing' narrative for sure.

But we're staying a family of 4. It continues and will always be the case that if DH or I catch coronavirus it can only be from our kids being in unsafe schools.

Nice try DfE, 3/10, could do better.

Here is the latest PHE data published today.

However Gavin is still claiming schools are safe.