The government is encouraging covid spread in schools

[noblegiraffe]

Bear with me, because if they're not, you have to explain this:

1. Schools will stay fully open end of. Even when they're not.

1. No masks allowed in classrooms where teachers and pupils spend the most time. The expectation that they would be mandated in corridors is fudged at the last minute to lockdown areas only.

1. Pupils are not allowed to be tested for the symptoms that kids are most likely to get.

1. Teachers (who in secondary will teach all bubbles without masks) are not to self isolate if there is a case in a class they have taught.

1. Fudge any data that may show teachers getting ill at a higher rate than the general population and Chris Whitty lying about it

1. Fudge data that may show school pupils having a higher infection rate than the general population

1. Not permitting / trying / mass testing in schools where there have been cases in case they find out how bad the spread is.

1. Actually sending letter to parents to tell them to stop getting kids tested.

9 Fine parents who try and keep their kids off when in contact with a known positive case.

10. Launch a propaganda campaign to convince parents that schools are safe using data from schools in lockdown, which every news outlet dutifully publicises. Continuing that propaganda campaign by releasing a video of socially distanced school kids wearing masks in classrooms.

11. Hide Gavin Williamson in a cupboard so that no journalist can accidentally ask him how his aim to reopen schools safely is going.

12. Announce that one of the school safety measures will be children in bubbles which will burst when there are cases. Stop this midway through September and start sending home as few kids as possible. Remove the schools remit from PHE control and put DfE in charge to enforce this.

13. Produce a Tiered system of responses to infection levels (rotas, masks, closures) to reassure parents, and shut the unions up. Then never mention them again and in fact state that they are not to be used.

14. When Hull begs for rotas due to imminent collapse of system, send a letter to all local authorities re-iterating NO ROTAS

15. Have some strange control over the media so they don’t mention any issues, or if they do, it must be accompanied by a picture of a jumbo classroom containing max 5 kids.

16. Tell teachers to ignore the app when it tells them to isolate, or to turn off the app completely

17. No funding for schools to implement any covid safety measures

Any other explanations for this list?

@3littlewords

Do you teachers really think that because the majority of parents are sending their DC to school that it means they don't care about teachers? Really? Should parents keep their DC at home out of protest for teachers rights?

why do you think the majority of the general public are still sending their dc into school?

BECAUSE THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE OPTION!

Some extremely vulnerable parents are able to organise their lives around their kids to home educate them and they still aren't allowed to have them home temporarily.

I assume it's because the government wants to pretend there isn't any risk to anyone for as long as they can...maybe until enough people die, that the cover gets blown? Or until the schools actually collapse through illness? And till then, la la la, there isn't a problem.

Here apparently, from the BBC, secondary children 8x as likely to bring infection into a household as an adult.

Primary children 3x as likely.

What I can't decide is which of two options is going on:

1. This is a completely deliberate plan by the government. They know that vaccine availability is going to be very limited well into next year, and children will be low down in the rollout plan. They are therefore pursuing a plan of deliberate infection in this group (without the 'downside' of lots of child deaths, as symptoms are likely to be mild), in the hope that, in combination with vaccination of older people, effective herd immunity will be achieved more quickly.

1. They are refusing to contemplate that their original strategy of opening schools without effective safeguards is failing, and see the current situation of uncontrolled spread within many schools as less harmful than the PR disaster of having to perform another U-turn.

I took a few photos of class (through gclassroom) which clearly shows that kids are elbow bumping, heads together, not distanced at all and have no masks on. I can't post them for obvious reasons, I did it as an extra when dealing with school.
Reality is that kids are not SD, not wearing masks and in practical classes (eg chem practice) they are not following seating plan when doing the experiments.
Making all dfe comms about this utter bollocks.
I wish I could post these pictures as I'd love to send them to all newspapers and media outlets of what the reality is in a newly build secondary school, let alone an older building.

In fact noble , the unfortunate message we have now transmitted to young people of all ages is that they cannot ever be expected to socially distance. I can be in a quiet corridor with just me and a sixth former and they won't press themselves against a wall to create space to pass me. Members of the public have complained to us about their lack of SD in the community : hardly surprisingly, they have forgotten to do it at all.

@Piggywaspushed

In fact noble , the unfortunate message we have now transmitted to young people of all ages is that they cannot ever be expected to socially distance. I can be in a quiet corridor with just me and a sixth former and they won't press themselves against a wall to create space to pass me. Members of the public have complained to us about their lack of SD in the community : hardly surprisingly, they have forgotten to do it at all.

It's the same in our school.

Hull parent here. I have sympathy with teachers. I support significantly increased protection/cleaning over school closures. DS school has regularly had whole years out so not just close contacts. They tell us each decision is discussed with PHE.

Hull council is part of the problem of community spread. A major employer, they insisted on office staff going back into offices whereas East Yorkshire Council has kept almost all of their staff wfh throughout. They have not pushed the boat on COVID symptoms. DH works for a manufacturing company and a member of the health & safety team was off sick with upset stomach & headache but didn't go for a test as didn't know it was a symptom!

Not in education so please can someone explain why more academy trusts not under LA are not making their own decisions like the one that has gone public this week with a planned early xmas closure?

@herecomesthsun

Here apparently, from the BBC, secondary children 8x as likely to bring infection into a household as an adult.

Primary children 3x as likely.

Wow, herecomes that professor is saying everything we’ve been saying for ages. Why was she allowed on the BBC?!

I am guessing they will now sprouts!

@TheSunIsStillShining

I took a few photos of class (through gclassroom) which clearly shows that kids are elbow bumping, heads together, not distanced at all and have no masks on. I can't post them for obvious reasons, I did it as an extra when dealing with school. Reality is that kids are not SD, not wearing masks and in practical classes (eg chem practice) they are not following seating plan when doing the experiments. Making all dfe comms about this utter bollocks. I wish I could post these pictures as I'd love to send them to all newspapers and media outlets of what the reality is in a newly build secondary school, let alone an older building.

Can't you scribble out the faces and anything identifying like school badges on blazers and circulate it to the press that way? I'm not well versed in these things but if they can't ID the kids or the school then surely it's legally ok?

In fact noble , the unfortunate message we have now transmitted to young people of all ages is that they cannot ever be expected to socially distance

School gate duty is a nightmare because they want to congregate on the pavement and wait for their mates just like they would inside the gates. But it makes the school look bad to the neighbours so we have to try to shoo them away reminding them that they are now behaving illegally. It’s nuts and I’m not surprised they don’t get it.

Slightly older story but does show that schools are driving household spread:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54937486

Photos are around on twitter.

@noblegiraffe

In fact noble , the unfortunate message we have now transmitted to young people of all ages is that they cannot ever be expected to socially distance

School gate duty is a nightmare because they want to congregate on the pavement and wait for their mates just like they would inside the gates. But it makes the school look bad to the neighbours so we have to try to shoo them away reminding them that they are now behaving illegally. It’s nuts and I’m not surprised they don’t get it.

It is crazy but you can't really blame then when nobody is distancing at all in town. One way systems and 2m markers around the stores have been removed from most shops, town centres are heaving with people stopping for a mask-less chat outside Morrisons, it's just non existent in day to day life. People suck basically.

[quote Piggywaspushed]Slightly older story but does show that schools are driving household spread:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54937486[/quote]
That story quotes the oft-mentioned “People living with secondary-school-age children were 8% more likely to catch the virus.”
But not the rarely mentioned “ It looked at data on nine million adults under 65 between February and August, comparing the risks to those living with and without children.”

What is notable about between February and August everyone, if we’re talking about risks with children?

The study was released in November and again used to ‘prove’ schools are safe.

@cantkeepawayforever

What I can't decide is which of two options is going on:

1. This is a completely deliberate plan by the government. They know that vaccine availability is going to be very limited well into next year, and children will be low down in the rollout plan. They are therefore pursuing a plan of deliberate infection in this group (without the 'downside' of lots of child deaths, as symptoms are likely to be mild), in the hope that, in combination with vaccination of older people, effective herd immunity will be achieved more quickly.

1. They are refusing to contemplate that their original strategy of opening schools without effective safeguards is failing, and see the current situation of uncontrolled spread within many schools as less harmful than the PR disaster of having to perform another U-turn.

A few options which you can stack together as you wish

1. They are stupid

1. They are especially ignorant about science

1. They are driven by a desire to keep the economy going at the expense of everything else. Kids in schools frees up parents more to work.

1. They are desperately populist and driven by the perceived popularity of kids being in school.

1. Their Tory fan base wants kids in school and doesn't itself fully believe in the importance of anti-covid measures.

1. Their own kids may be in independent schools, which may have smaller class sizes etc. anyway (mileage varies a lot)

1. They are utterly incompetent. Even if they understood the issues they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery. Or they would get their incompetent mates (or mates' wives) to organise the piss up appallingly, for a ridiculous fee.

1. It is a really difficult situation, governing in a pandemic, and especially managing education, and even competent governments are struggling with this one.

1. Oh and they don't believe in putting any money in state education. So any mitigation measures have to be managed without any state funding.

I think the above apply, rather than a deliberate conspiracy to kill off as many of the population as possible.

@herecomesthsun exactly my point! You haven't been given alternative option and neither have I, it's not that parents don't care. Short of writing to a local MP what else are parents supposed to do?

There will be of course a small amount of parents who don't actually care because thats life unfortunately its not a true reflection of all parents

Or, it's a balancing act because there is more to life and death than Covid.
And whilst everything has been turned on its head for this one virus, as a small compromise with some level of sanity, it's been decided that educating children has some importance.

Yep, we have had complaints about students walking home in large groups, but it is tricky for students to grasp that as soon as they go out of the school gate, they are only meant to walk in pairs.

(But it's fine for their mate to be on the bus with loads of other kids).

10. They bloody hate teachers and have been actively campaigning with teachers cast as villains and the govt as heroes. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the motivation is sheer spite.

@HitchikersGuide

Or, it's a balancing act because there is more to life and death than Covid. And whilst everything has been turned on its head for this one virus, as a small compromise with some level of sanity, it's been decided that educating children has some importance.

Have you read any of these threads at all?

I agree that educating children is really important- but the constant disruption is not leading to a good education for anyone!

I think all most teachers want is for there to be acknowledgement that there is a problem, and other strategies need to be considered.

it's been decided that educating children has some importance.

Not important enough to put any money into though.

herecomesthesun I don't think incompetence explains the hiding/fudging of data though. Or the forbidding of masks in classrooms which would cost them nothing.

I have already written to my MP, who wrote to Nick Gibb, the Schools Minister for me. I am composing more letters

Both my kids are currently off schools (one unfortunately for other health reasons mainly).

BRTUS on facebook are very supportive, and a class action against the D of E has been discussed, although it isn't clear how fast that is moving forward.

Presumably, if 14% of children are at home, and rising, social services are going to have their hands full following all of us up?

That photo above is horrific, I would hate to be in that corridor in non-pandemic times, never mind now. It honestly sent a shiver down my spine. I showed my dc who go to three different schools and all say they have never seen anything like that thankfully. Schools here seem to be different than in England, hence very little of the points in the op applying to here, thankfully.