Masks

[Rosebel]

I'm starting to wonder if masks make a difference. Basing it on a very small sample obviously.
My children's school had no cases before they brought the masks in (2 weeks ago). Yesterday the whole of Y9 and Y11 were sent home along with a number of Y7s, 8s and 10s.
Seems strange to me that the school managed to have not a single case before mask wearing and now they suddenly have all these cases.
Just a coincident?

Do you think children faff about with their masks? On and off therefore more mouth/nose touching than they would if they didn't wear one at all maybe?

Adults know to put them on and leave them alone or there's no point.

I think if not used properly they can actually do more damage than good. For example if worn more than once, are they taken on and off again at school throughout the day?

They only wear them in the corridor, not in lessons so I suppose on and off 5 or 6 times a day which isn't ideal.
They might mess round with them, you'd hope they'd be more sensible but it's still a new experience really.
It's just worrying so many of the children are off. My children have been incredibly lucky so far but I wonder how long it'll be before I get the dreaded call.
I thought they'd be safer now, how strange that its much worse.

2 weeks isn't really long enough to come to that conclusion

We haven't used masks at all in our school (special school, lot of exemptions, low pupil numbers) and we've had our first cases this week. This thing seems to have become far more rife this week. I know 6 people well who currently have positive tests. That's more that I knew through the whole crisis until now.

The saying is do not confuse correlation with causation.

Exactly what Pipandmum said. Could it be that the reason the school brought masks in was because infection rates were rising rapidly in the local area?

Danish study reported in the Spectator found no benefit. You won’t see this on Facebook though as they have censored it even though is a mainstream publication.

The school I work in has had only one positive teacher and one asymptomatic positive child -not taught by that teacher. The teacher who was positive was one who was utterly paranoid and wearing a mask all the time and long before they were mainstream - go figure.

As I understand it, when a person wears a mask they're primarily protecting other people by stopping the projection of their respiratory droplets. For the person wearing the mask though, unless they're being meticulous with their hand hygiene, taking care not to let the mask touch other parts of their face when taking it off (i.e. not just sticking it under their chin as so many people seem to do) and wearing a new, clean mask each time they put one on, then they are putting themselves at increased risk of catching the virus by wearing it.

I think they probably do make a difference in a situation when you're face to face with someone at an appointment for more than 10 minutes like seeing a doctor, or going through your tax with an accountant.

But for walking around Tesco or buying a takeaway they are hygiene theatre and utterly pointless.

It’s not enough to go on. We have masks in corridors at secondary and by parents at primary and incidence has stayed very low (1 case each).

I’m not sure about masks though as other factors will play a role and it’s very hard to know.

@sparklingbrook

Adults know to put them on and leave them alone or there's no point.

Not from what I've seen... hanging off one ear, under the nose, under the chin, pull them down to talk to people...

...and if a mask is ineffective then a visor if completely pointless other than a warning sign to keep away from them!

Adults know to put them on and leave them alone or there's no point.

They really don't on the whole. I actually saw a woman outside my local shop stop to speak to someone. She was wearing a mask and she pulled it down to her chin to have a chat, then pulled it up as she walked off. Even staff at our Tesco are wearing them hanging under their nose.

Masks have been mandatory in France since May and as cases went up so did the requirement to wear masks in more and more places including out on streets and in parks. It is now obligatory for all children over the age of 6 to wear a mask all day in school (not just moving around) and for adults in their workplaces, on public transport and inside anywhere. The requirement to wear them outside remains in most large cities and in busier shopping areas in smaller towns and suburbs. As far as I can tell from the ever increasing case numbers, wearing masks has done sweet FA.
Additionally I agree with a previous poster who said they potentially create more of a personal risk to catching the virus because any virus on hands or airborne that can sit in the mask can multiply and reach levels more likely to cause the illness.

I work in a pharmacy. We have one customer in at a time and they have to wear a mask unless exempt. It makes it easy to study "mask behaviour" and what I will say is that maybe one in 20 at most is following the guidelines - most fail at step 1.

Step 1 - First wash or sanitize hands ... nope...

People go into a pocket, drag out a mask that may have been used many times, put it on, continually adjust it, pull it under their chin whilst in the queue, pull it up after getting in the shop. Pull it down because it has fogged up their glasses, pull it off as they leave the shop, put it uncovered in a pocket ready for next time, do not sanitise or wash hands.

is it any wonder it is not working?

Well where I work and from what I have seen in brief visits to the shops adults are wearing masks correctly. 🤷‍♀️
I put mine on and leave it alone.
But what I was getting at was that children are far less likely to do that.

I often think there are a lot of very altruistic people out there who are purely wearing a mask to protect others as so many seem to have little regard for the risks they're taking by wearing and handling their masks incorrectly. Or there are just a lot of people who have no understanding of how masks work and are just wearing one because they have to.

@Susanwouldntlikeit

Danish study reported in the Spectator found no benefit. You won’t see this on Facebook though as they have censored it even though is a mainstream publication.

The Danish study was underpowered, included self-reporting and most importantly studied whether the masks protect the wearer, not whether masks reduce transmission. So it isn’t really relevant.

The Danish study also didn't say that there was no benefit to the wearer. They didn't find the benefit as high as they were expecting, there may be a moderate benefit but they couldn't rule out the fact that there was no benefit to the wearer.

FB censor on accuracy rather than whether something is in a mainstream publication or not. They are also fairly lax about what they censor. I would assume the article must have been seriously inaccurate if FB actually censored it.

Susanwouldntlikeit

Some other reports -

Scientist reveals how masks stop coronavirus from spreading in viral photos

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-face-mask-covid-19-pandemic-a9595221.html

Cambridge University -

Face masks significantly reduce the transmission of the coronavirus - and we should all be encouraged to wear them, according to University of Cambridge researchers.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/face-masks-are-key-to-preventing-second-wave-of-covid-19-and-we-should-all-wear-them-say-cambridge-researchers-9112778/

Oxford University -

“Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 – for the wearer and those around them” and warned “face masks and coverings work – act now”.

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

Remember it also depends on the mask. Some masks will not protect, others will protect against a significant amount. It also depends on the fit of the mask. I have a healthcare business and wear them up to 8 hours a day with patients and there are only certain masks we are specifically advised to wear and have always worn due to possible bacterial/viral aerosol exposure.

What percentage of Joe Public's masks are of an effective quality, well-fitting, and worm appropriately and what are token gestures to get on quietly with life without bother. I'm not aware of any studies about the efficacy of the latter.

I doubt that masks have caused an outbreak of infections. More likely that cases are rising in the area anyway. It is worth keeping an eye on localised data changes.

I think you've answered your own question, OP. You said they only wear them in corridors. They then (likely) go and sit 30 to a room, which is also fairly likely to be poorly ventilated, for 40+ minutes at a time. If they had worn masks in class it may have helped the situation several year groups are now in...

It would be interesting to do some swab tests on masks worn by the general public. My guess is that the majority of masks would have similar results to swab tests on used handkerchiefs. Imagine having laws that forced people to breath through a used handkerchief?

As for masks worn in school by the average child. I feel nauseous just thinking about it.