Christmas - am I missing the point?

[thisiswhoiam]

Like everyone I want the chance to celebrate a "normal" Christmas with my loved ones but obviously I do not want to give them Covid (or them to give to me).

What I can't understand is why the the whole country couldn't go into a hard core lockdown (a proper don't leave the house without paperwork version, rather than a UK wishy washy lockdown) from Friday 11 December until Christmas Day If we are not mixing this will have 2 benefits:

1. All Covid spread will be stopped because we are not mixing - benefits the UK as a whole.

2. At the end of these 2 weeks we can get together for a normalish Christmas with one or two other households safe in the knowledge none of us have Covid.

3. We can even go mad in the shops and hospitality 2 Dec - 10 Dec if we really need to to help the economy.

What am I missing?

I assume you’re one of these middle class twats who doesn’t get poverty stricken by lockdowns and can work from home, do your PT sessions on Zoom and hide behind a Cath Kidston mask?

Because it's not just Covid is it ? What about the economy ? People's jobs ? Affording to eat ? Businesses surviving ? All for a few days over Christmas.

Also, why should we all be put into a 'hard core lockdown' so some people can have a 'normal' Christmas, whatever that is? You say 'Like everyone'; I certainly don't want any more lockdowns of any type for the sake of relaxing rules for one or two days.

This, completely this.

I assume you’re one of these middle class twats who doesn’t get poverty stricken by lockdowns and can work from home, do your PT sessions on Zoom and hide behind a Cath Kidston mask?

Indeed.

The gov't doesn't care whether you spend Christmas Day on your own wearing purple with a dildo up your bum or singing Verdi surrounded by 25 of your nearest and dearest. They want to maximise people's spending to stop the economy from going further into the shit at what should be the most lucrative time of the year for businesses and hospitality, and minimise transmission, so that it looks like they have a shred of control come January.

I tend to think of Christmas as a month in December/ Winter. It's getting colder, wetter and darker, icier and there could be snow. We need warmer clothes, solid shoes, heating in our homes. Entertainment so we don't go stir crazy. General health tends to suffer, and mental health can be affected for all sorts of reasons, unreasonable expectations, money woes, anxiety, loneliness, lack of support etc.

It's the hardest time of the year for many people already, and I think another full lockdown, would cause a lot of misery in itself (the forced isolation, loss of earnings, and potentially financial security, for a start).

We have about 12 days, and then Christmas technically starts. Advent calendars will start counting down until the big day, people will want to meet to exchange gifts and catch up, start stocking up for time off/ in general, (but still have to go out last minute shopping for that thing they need but inevitably forgot).

People on reduced earnings, will struggle more, particularly those on minimum wage, where 20+% of not much, can suddenly be the difference between being able to afford internet, to run a car, rent or mortgage payments.

36 days is not a lot of time to make changes. Symptoms can take two weeks to spread. We won't have a full idea of transmissions this week, until about the 3rd Dec, and then after that, the 17th, 8 days before Christmas, and not long before bleak, cold, skint (but coming down with bath sets) January, which already seems to last about 100 days, at the best of times (iykwim).

I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think another full lockdown is it. I think there should be more practical support for people choosing to self isolate (for themselves or loved ones). Help with shopping or ordering shopping, prescriptions, easy access to furlough schemes to allow them to stay off work, if it can't be done from home. Mental healh support. Allow the the most vulnerable to protect themselves with voluntary shielding, and let any of us who would probably get mild symptoms, try to keep the economy going, businesses from totally floundering, and a certain amount of normality, for vulnerable people to return to.

Also, why should we all be put into a 'hard core lockdown' so some people can have a 'normal' Christmas, whatever that is? You say 'Like everyone'; I certainly don't want any more lockdowns of any type for the sake of relaxing rules for one or two days

Agree with this. And I hate the assumption many people are making that everyone’s ideal ‘normal Christmas’ consists of a few days in a crowded house with a large extended family.

I have a small family - even getting everyone together (which we never do, as the two sides aren’t close) would mean seeing maximum 8 people spread out over the Christmas period. For me - and I’m guessing many others - the joy of Christmas is more about the build up - the preparations, lights, Christmas markets, carol concerts, ice skating etc. The ‘Big Day’ itself is always a massive anti-climax.

No way would I be locking down for most of December for the sake of preserving some mythical ‘family Christmas’ that I’ll never experience myself. And that’s without taking the massive economic hardship you’d be forcing people into by enacting this ridiculous idea.

*symptoms can take two weeks to appear become apparent.

hard core lockdown (a proper don't leave the house without paperwork version

So the dogs don't get walked (or maybe they do)
and everyone gets fat (coz that's not a risk factor for any health problem)
and kids don't got to school (MNers would adore this)
and all training of future nurses, engineers, teachers, social workers, stops (coz hell, who needs them ?)

Every time someone writes a list of all the 'key' workers who would need to leave home to do their essential jobs, it seems to be about half the work force. But presumably OP doesn't want teaching or social care to happen, so that's a big reduction right there. You know how Christmas is so much more important than education or combatting daily loneliness.

Because even in a ‘hardcore’ lockdown not everyone can stay home? DH and I are both prison officers, we have to go to work. We also rely on childcare being open to enable us to do so. My mam, dad, brother, SIL, DH’s step-mum & auntie are all key workers too. The virus is still circulating amongst people who have to work to keep the country ticking over.

Because 2 weeks isn’t enough time for the virus to pass through a household. Unless every person isolated from each other for the fortnight, they could still be incubating COVID/be infectious.

Because I don’t see why I should have to face another ‘hardcore lockdown’ so that other people can have Christmas dinner together. NO ONE should be alone on Christmas Day, of course people should be able to celebrate with a support bubble. I also fully support an exemption for those who’s relatives are seriously/terminally ill. But for the majority, there’s no reason they can’t celebrate Xmas with their own households. I don’t understand the logic of asking everyone else to give up 2 weeks, so that you can spend a couple of days doing what you want.

I don't give a fuck about Christmas and I don't want my severely autistic son locked indoors in some hard core lockdown for 2 weeks because of Christmas.

D'oh *to spread become apparent

Some of us have these things called jobs!

I don't want to have a hard lockdown just to save Christmas. It's one year. It's not wort. It and I say that as a practicing Catholic.

3) We can even go mad in the shops and hospitality 2 Dec - 10 Dec if we really need to to help the economy.

Think hard, OP. Think what the whole country going "mad in the shops" for a week would do to the Covid rate.

But yeah, closing the country down for two weeks after that will magically solve everything [hmm,]

Also I take it, OP, that you would expect food shops etc to be closed for those two weeks? And all schools to be closed? Although you would still expect to be getting your electricity and emergency services, magically?

Sounds grand, my business has been clinging on for dear life for the past 9 months. One more lockdown will kill it completely. I’ll just give it up and put 20 people out of jobs so you can enjoy Christmas with great aunt Julie.

What you are missing OP is that people need to earn a living. In amongst your fantasy world I assume you still want food, electricity, gas, police, hospital staff, etc etc

But you would like people “locked” in their houses and only leaving with paperwork.

I also think we need to keep some of the things this virus has reminded us of in mind.

Who society really needs, to function. Who we need the most (yet wages often don't reflect that). How different the environment can be, without humans destroying it. Who leads by example, who's worthy of respect. How important easy access to medical care is. I think sometimes in the UK, we take the NHS for granted, but I also don't see why gps don't work weekends, is there a shortage?

Yes I think you are. Locking down for 2 weeks apart from keyworkers means that you have a whole host of people still mixing and a them and us problem

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-supermarkets-most-common-exposure-setting-for-catching-coronavirus-in-england-latest-data-shows-12136418

As it gets nearer Christmas MN is going to be overrun with threads like this, it getting quite tiresome

*1) All Covid spread will be stopped because we are not mixing - benefits the UK as a whole.

2. At the end of these 2 weeks we can get together for a normalish Christmas with one or two other households safe in the knowledge none of us have Covid.

3. We can even go mad in the shops and hospitality 2 Dec - 10 Dec if we really need to to help the economy.

A. Because a hard lockdown eradicated the virus back in march didn't it?
B. Because some people still have to go out and work
C. Because kids education should be above a day in family.
D. Because 10 days of closing the shops before xmas will still do damage to the economy
E. Because not everyone wants to celebrate xmas.
F. Because now with a soft lockdown people are even breaking the rules, so why should we make the effort for 2 weeks when people will even break it.
G. Because we can have a quiet xmas and it won't be the end of the world.
H. Because we don't have to have 10-15 people around the table to have a good xmas, 2 households mixing fair enough, I'd do exceptions where there are terminally ill members but healthy people no need 3 households to be happy.
I. Some of us haven't been able to see our family members this year, we won't be able to during xmas, count yourself lucky if you have some family face you could have a quiet xmas with.
J. Because xmas is not everything, there is life apart from xmas.

do you want me to do the whole alphabet?

@Sleazeyjet

My dad is dying. Christmas is the last chance we have to get together.

Will I fuck not have him spend his last Christmas with his family.

Fair enough. I'd do the same in a heartbeat. So sorry about your dad xx

I suppose asymptomatic spread would still be an issue though.