Eight cases in secondary school: what happens next?

[SteveWrong]

Hi, I know that bubbles don't burst any more, and that only close contacts are sent home, but what happens when we're looking at these kinds of numbers in the last week? Will anything else happen? Is there some kind of trigger point for any different kind of action?

I have heard that bubbles at our school will burst if more than 10% of the bubble is positive. That's 20 something kids. It will be "interesting " to see how long it takes to get that far, at the moment it's 2-3 kids per week testing positive (plus the 30 or so that then have to self isolate).

Do you remember back in the day it was going to be 'two cases in a bubble burst the bubble'?

Now it's not so much a bubble as a reinforced concrete block.

My school carried on by collapsing groups and some staff were doing a full day of lessons every day. Bubbles were only sent home when there were so many close contacts the vast majority of the year had to isolate. If this hasn't happened we may ha e had to close.

There is no plan or mitigating measures available from phe as far as I can tell. I have to say it does make you feel expendable when you see colleagues going off with positive tests one after another and absolutely nothing changes. Essentially you end up accepting you will get Infected too sooner or later.

Some of this is down to the school now being responsible for track and trace. No one is trained for it and let's just say it is not rigorous where I am as the approach seems to be that " it's not an exact science"

No, if a significant number of teachers are off, then bubbles/year groups will usually be sent home. Multiple schools are now closed to ks3 or to different year groups on a rolling daily basis because so many staff are off. Other schools (primary from anecdotes on other threads) are expecting staff to teach 60 children at once.

"There isn't a trigger point. There isn't a plan. There are no ratios. There's nothing."

Which is exactly why I'm taking my children out of school 2 weeks before Christmas Day in the hope we can see FIL for a few days over the Christmas period

I have dt in two different bubbles - one bubble has been sent home as it has 6 cases (they just sent those with direct contact at first) however when more cases became apparent they shut the bubble. The other twins bubble will close even with one case we've been told so the whole year group would be off at that point.

DS's year was just sent home because of one case. Bubbles certainly do still pop.

So there's basically no trigger point with case numbers, and even if so many teachers go off, due to the smaller numbers of pupils in schools, the ratios will be ok? This is for secondary, where remaining teachers will just cover others?

My daughter is currently covering for teachers who have been sent home and her planning lessons are taken away to do it. She is increasingly losing any breaks to cover other people's lunch duties. She is staying up all evening and through weekends to do planning. Early 20's, newly qualified teacher and I worry she will burn out.

This means she has been teaching a range of subjects in secondary. At some point it will not be sustainable if more teachers catch it.

It's a moving target.

We had a case in yr 10 and year group sent home

Dd yr7 his half year group sent home to isolate for 14 days they due back on Thursday 19th.

Ds Yr 8 just those who have close contact sent home and unfortunately they were one told to isolate until Monday 23rd.

We then had an email to say year 8 & 9 were being taught at home until 30th November as they have a shortage of teachers.

So I think we just have to trust the Head and school to do the best they can following the guidelines as they are at that moment of time.

Well their actions are definitely leading me not to trust them! I don't feel safe, and feel that it's school open at any cost. Seeing as it probably won't close no matter how many cases, all we can do is count the next five weeks down.

The school where I teach sent the whole of year 11 home to isolate this week due to I think 5 cases. Previously we've sent whole bubbles home for 2 days so we have time for contact tracing, and then only close contacts have to keep self isolating. There's no specific limit, but these decisions are made after speaking with the local public health team.

If enough staff were off and we couldn't get cover, we'd have to close some year groups. This is what happened just before the first lockdown. At the minute my school is hanging on with staff covering each other and sixth form getting extra free periods sometimes.

@noblegiraffe

Do you remember back in the day it was going to be 'two cases in a bubble burst the bubble'?

Now it's not so much a bubble as a reinforced concrete block.

I could be wrong, its been a while, but I think it was originally said that two or more cases would action a "consideration" of further action?

@OverTheRainbowLiesOz

So there's basically no trigger point with case numbers, and even if so many teachers go off, due to the smaller numbers of pupils in schools, the ratios will be ok? This is for secondary, where remaining teachers will just cover others?

My daughter is currently covering for teachers who have been sent home and her planning lessons are taken away to do it. She is increasingly losing any breaks to cover other people's lunch duties. She is staying up all evening and through weekends to do planning. Early 20's, newly qualified teacher and I worry she will burn out.

This means she has been teaching a range of subjects in secondary. At some point it will not be sustainable if more teachers catch it.

I wish more people would acknowledge situations like your daughter's. This is why unions are calling for change - not, as some UFT campaigners would have you believe, because teachers don't want to teach.

Teachers, who were already leaving the field in droves, can't be expected to continue working to those conditions.

A huge thank you to your daughter, and all other teachers, from me.

"I could be wrong, its been a while, but I think it was originally said that two or more cases would action a "consideration" of further action?"

And so it did. There were so many outbreaks under that definition, it was decided to advise schools to do their own track and trace arrangements, no doubt increasing the prevalence and transmission of covid within schools!

The thing is, after the first cakll to the DfE helpline 9when they send out the standard letter for you to send out), there is NO national plan at all.

The helpline doesn't want to know if it isn't your first case - they advise on the first case and never again.

After that, it is the job of your local public health service, which have very different policies by area. In general, those historically in ier 1 areas seem to be quite risk averse, those in ex Tier 3 areas jave so many cases they advise cklose contacts only.

It also depends by school. Many started by sending whole bubbles home, either 'just in case' or because they did not have good systems for identifying close contacts. They then realised that the school would close very rapidly, and that parents might object, and in line with the mood music [school blame] from the Government, have now gone for close contacts only.

There is a strong presumption in all guidance given that teachers have not been within 2m of anyone (even when it is blatantly untrue) in order to keep schools open that should probably be shut through lack of staff.

Note that NONE of this is the fault of schools. They are having to respond to guidance that is driven as much by PR and political desire as by any form of health concern.

Timely TES article. The DfE were asked how many staff off before a school closes.

Their answer was 🤷‍♀️

www.tes.com/news/how-many-staff-have-be-school-closes

@SteveWrong

Well their actions are definitely leading me not to trust them! I don't feel safe, and feel that it's school open at any cost. Seeing as it probably won't close no matter how many cases, all we can do is count the next five weeks down.

Oh I don't think schools are safe, but I do think that schools and head teachers are doing their best with what they can do within the guide lines.

Personally I think schools now need to close as there are too many cases and schools are now better prepared to give a better education from home.

I really hope schools don’t have to close and I work in one. I hope mass testing might be the answer.

A huge thank you to your daughter, and all other teachers, from me.

That's lovely thank you. Just like other Mum's worry about their secondary age children, I'm worrying about my daughter who is only four years older than some of them!

The workplace protections do seem to be at risk and teachers do seem to be leaving. Out of her cohort she knows of a number who have jumped to another job.

^If a school has so many ill teachers that it is unable to operate, what are its legal obligations to parents and pupils? And what action will the government take if a school is forced to close?
The DfE’s regional schools commissioners, local authorities and trusts are on hand to support with any concerns over staffing capacity.^

We expect schools to make every effort to provide the maximum possible amount of face-to-face education to pupils in their schools. If schools need to close to year groups or the entire school, it should be as a last resort, with a view to using the time closed to put in place measures to quickly reopen.

This is the response to the question of lots of teachers being sick in the TES article. The solution - whip the remaining exhausted teachers harder.

My dc secondary school have had 8 cases in the same year they have emailed today to send home the entire year group until 30th November as a circuit break. Problem is the children who are being sent home to isolate aren't being made to stay at home so going for fresh air and walk round town for exercise

And I bet your DD is still being held to account for all manner of minutiae @OverTheRainbowLiesOz. We are being absolutely hammered with combined online and in-person teaching, learning walks, data deadlines and demands to provide more and more support. It's as if Covid doesn't exist except for higher absence rates.

@2anddone

My dc secondary school have had 8 cases in the same year they have emailed today to send home the entire year group until 30th November as a circuit break. Problem is the children who are being sent home to isolate aren't being made to stay at home so going for fresh air and walk round town for exercise

The setting in which DH works has treated this as a disciplinary matter, as they have a rule about knowingly risking the health and safety of others within the setting or community through their actions, as part of their levelled disciplinary policy.

The person who was brazen enough to be seen with a group of mates while on their way back from the testing centre had the book thrown at them, internal excusions and all. It does seem to have made parents and students take more notice.

And I bet your DD is still being held to account for all manner of minutiae

She is lucky enough to work for a really nice department head and school but the sheer workload is getting a bit much now. The department head has small children so is also exhausted.

Schools themselves usually judge whether to close as they know their cohorts and whether it's manageable to carry on.

The bubble thing is bizarre; I think it depends on if it's an academy chain and also on the area's PHE advice.

3 cases in a yr nine locally led to 70% of the kids being a close contact and so the whole year closed.