To all those who say "protect the vulnerable and let everyone else gets back to normal.

[Confuzzlediddled]

Stop talking rubbish!

My friend has lost her husband yesterday due to covid, he had underlying conditions and was shielding, hasn't left the house for months and just before Halloween his daughter tested positive after catching it at school.

He caught it from her and is now dead at 45, leaving a wife and 2 teenage children.

This is why everyone needs to do their bit, and you can't just let a deadly virus rip through and lock away the vulnerable, they have families, children who bring it home from school!!

Wear a mask, wash your hands and follow the damn rules people!!

I’m so sorry for your friends loss

I have a multitude of health problems. I have tubes all over the place. I very rarely leave the house. But if I do. It’s to do the achool run

I’m terrified that someone is going to give it to my child. Who will bring it home. I’ll die and they will grow up without a mother.

I can’t imagine anyone wants to imagine leaving their own kids. I’m sure most people don’t think about it daily. Yet I’ve got a life limiting illness as it is.

My friends niece is dying. She’s 15. She’s got weeks left if that. Everyone has to be so careful because they didn’t want her to die before it was her time to go. Yet they’ve still had people who have tried to come in the door without ppe etc. It’s horrifying.

Generally people don’t think about it unless it effects them. My child’s headmaster doesn’t care that if I catch Covid I’ll die. Simple as. I think he thinks I’m just making it up. I’m very close to detegsitering. (My other child is home schooled anyway). Yet if I die. I want them to have a support system.

I’m so sorry xx

Within all this there is so much pain. I hope that most rational people understand it's no where near one sided and there is no easy balance across the health needs and also bringing economics into it, as yes of course there is no nhs without it and the mental health pressure of economic devastation is real
But, ignoring the govt, do people really believe that the chief medical officer , etc don't consider ALL the medical factors before making their decisions
And that these decisions are mirrored around the world?
Any please, no msm, bill gates controls the world , look at Sweden responses

@sleepwouldbenice
Look out of Europe. It is obvious that the schools are not the hill to die on there. And yet those kids survive. Even in Europe more and more

But, ignoring the govt, do people really believe that the chief medical officer , etc don't consider ALL the medical factors before making their decisions
Yes, I think they will only say the facts that are considered true bu gov. Personal level - they are probably good people- but they have a job to underpin gov. All of them have downplayed covid at one point or another. None of them rand the fire alarms ever. They are -at best- cautiously warning.... their job would be to shout from the rooftops the scientific consensus and results of studies. To help people understand. But "next slide please" is all they can do.

sent it too soon.
even in europe more and more countries are switching to blended/online learning. But here it is out of the question. Schools are safe. Uk is a magical place where the virus knows to stop at the front gate of an educational facility and not travel home to infect a potentially CV parent.

I'd love it if dfe/gov would pull it's head out of it's arse. but it's not happening any time soon.

And i think they are willing to maximize damage just to cover up how shit Q1 of 2021 is going to be because of brexit. They'll open up on dec2, let the virus spread, then blame the people who didn't behave responsibly and mask q1 results with shitloads of propaganda about irresponsible people and in general covid.

So sorry for your loss OP.

I'm CEV and my DD tested positive on the weekend. I wanted to keep the kids home and set up remote learning however I was told that I would be fined for their absence.

Kids wear masks at school all day,change clothes and shower as soon as they get back from school. My DH wfh, we get our shopping delivered and only leave the house for medical appointments. Yet I am sat in my bedroom away from my family because of this virus. I'm just waiting till it gets me and I know I will end up in ICU.
I'm my opinion keeping CEV shielded should include everyone in their household. From March till August we were all sheilding together and I could spend time with the kids as we didn't go out. Now I'm having to stay away from them due to them going back to school.

I think @luckylavender must be reading a different thread from me.

Hope you are ok, @Begonias, and manage to avoid catching it. So worrying - I get it.

@yellowsubmarines
I'm fed up with people saying 'protect the elderly' because from what I've seen it's the elderly not adhering to guidance.

Don't judge everyone by your ignorant neighbours. Few, if any, of the elderly people living in my area are behaving so stupidly or selfishly.

OP, I am so sorry. How very very sad for you and your friend and her family.

Examples like this are exactly why I would like to see the CEV moved much closer to the top of the Order of Vaccination (for want of a better phrase). CEV group has many younger people in it who are extremely connected to wider society, and cannot always avoid it, just like your friend with children at school.

@vdbfamily I was shocked that people with Aneurysms had their surgery cancelled. You can't get more urgent than an aneurysm. I can't imagine how the patients felt living with a ticking time bomb.

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@vdbfamily I was shocked that people with Aneurysms had their surgery cancelled. You can't get more urgent than an aneurysm. I can't imagine how the patients felt living with a ticking time bomb. [/quote]
It’s almost unimaginable isn’t it? If all the ICU capacity is taken up with Covid patients there is nowhere for a post-surgical aneurysm patient to be cared for. Horrible choices are being made.

Examples like this are exactly why I would like to see the CEV moved much closer to the top of the Order of Vaccination (for want of a better phrase). CEV group has many younger people in it who are extremely connected to wider society, and cannot always avoid it, just like your friend with children at school.
^^This

This is so tragic for the DC who gave it to her father.

[quote Confuzzlediddled]@vdbfamily so essentially you're saying what? That he deserved to die? That his life doesn't matter? You cold hearted specimen[/quote]
You're putting words in people's mouths.

@TheSunIsStillShining

sent it too soon. even in europe more and more countries are switching to blended/online learning. But here it is out of the question. Schools are safe. Uk is a magical place where the virus knows to stop at the front gate of an educational facility and not travel home to infect a potentially CV parent.

I'd love it if dfe/gov would pull it's head out of it's arse. but it's not happening any time soon.

And i think they are willing to maximize damage just to cover up how shit Q1 of 2021 is going to be because of brexit. They'll open up on dec2, let the virus spread, then blame the people who didn't behave responsibly and mask q1 results with shitloads of propaganda about irresponsible people and in general covid.

Yep of course. The USA is doing so well for example

And I have seen the presentations. They do reflect all aspects

I work with many peopl who see the impact of all aspects of Every type of end of life healthcare Every day. They agree with the govt approach

That’s good enough for me

Sorry for your loss but i full agree with @vdbfamily. Covid is awful and every loss is a tragedy but we have to stop seeing covid as the only thing.

My uncle has heart disease. Is in his 60s and all of his heart appointments have been cancelled due to covid. He had trouble with his heart a few weeks ago and the paramedics wouldnt take him to hospital with a suspected heart attack. So basically its ok for him to die unless he ironically gets covid then they will try and help. Its not ok. Same for people with cancer being left to die because covid takes priority. None of that is ok either.

@vdbfamily

I think the problem is that the restrictions put in place around Covid are causing excess deaths from other conditions so someone else will lose their parent to a cancer that needed treating in March. I watched Hospital last night and it was all about this. Urgent surgery being cancelled and delayed for 6 months because of Covid. It is tragic when people die young, but the increase in excess deaths is not just people doing of Covid, it is people doing of other conditions because of Covid restrictions. I am sympathetic to the view that we do all we can to protect the vulnerable but we have to also consider wider health economy and also economy generally as job losses and isolation lead to mental health issues which can also be life threatening.

Urgent surgery is being delayed as a result of covid and hospitals being overwhelmed and staff shortages etc....not as a result of them locking down....when there is a lockdown they don't close hospitals ! Also do you really think the vunerable want hospital appts and stuff to be messed up the way they are ATM they are the very people who need the hospital appointments !

OP I am so very sorry to hear of your sad loss, for a lot of people this is unfortunately the reality of covid because others just don't want to have even minor changes to how their lives are.

Minor changes? Is that a serious comment?

[quote Confuzzlediddled]@vdbfamily so essentially you're saying what? That he deserved to die? That his life doesn't matter? You cold hearted specimen[/quote]
No she’s saying that Covid isn’t the only killer and that other people are losing their parents as a result of it too. Have an awareness for what other people are going through not just on a Covid level.

My mum has been fighting stage four cancer for five years and doing extremely well. Her scan was delayed twice because of Covid cancellations and when she eventually received it we found it has metastasised into her liver. She hasn’t got long.

The world cannot stop for Covid at the expense of everyone else who is critically vulnerable and ill. If she had gotten her scan earlier then it would have been caught earlier and she may have had a fighting chance. There have been victims of this disease left, right and centre, it’s impact is not linear.

OP I’m sorry for your loss and it’s heartbreaking to hear stories like this.

I’m really surprised that if you are ECV you as a family are not able to shield as a unit (I don’t have children of school age). Is this because the schools can’t support e-learning for those children? So your option would be to de-register and home school?

I completely agree with you @vdbfamily and I think lots of people aren’t complying this time because the balance has now been tipped. We do need to move towards protecting the vulnerable, sorry but why should everyone suffer? It literally makes no sense at all.

@gallbladderpain these are NOT minor changes to people lives. People that have this attitude, are those in my view, those whose lives haven’t changed much. Those who can WFH (and love doing so), who have nice homes and gardens, aren’t that close to family/don’t see them that often anyway and don’t have much of a social life outside of their family unit. Nothing wrong with any of those things of course, but not everyone lives their life like that. Many of us NEED to see our families and our friends, our social interactions are our lifeline. I have birth during this pandemic and had to labour for hours on my own due to my husband not being allowed to join me until the final moments. It’s also been ILLEGAL for my baby to see her grandparents. So not minor changes and just things to put up with by any stretch...

Also I have to say the amount of elderly people who come up to me to look at the baby, who get too close is frustrating. Bless them they just aren’t used to this and whilst trying their best I do get annoyed as they are the ones most at risk.

To the poster whose child has tested positive - I hope you’re holding up OK as it must be so worrying. If it’s any comfort, a good friend of mine who worked on the covid ICUs for 12 weeks during the peak didn’t ever catch it and neither did the 70 year old consultant she was working with.

It’s very simple. If you do not follow rules aimed to minimise the spread of COVID, you are contributing to overloading hospitals and making things worse for both COVID sufferers and for those needing urgent treatment for other causes. It’s not one or the other.

If schools aren't open many parents cannot earn the money that pays the salaries of nurses with the result there may be no NHS.

By the way being against all the mandatory rules since March I have always followed them as we cannot pick and choose which laws we like in a society otherwise it collapses.

@vdbfamily

Thank you to posters who rightly pointed out that I was not trying to be heartless. On reflection it might have helped if I had begun by expressing condolences. Every such situation is heartbreaking. I work in a hospital and am setting frontline the effects of all this. The lack of visiting rights in care homes is forcing families to refuse care home placements and insist vulnerable elderly are discharged home to often unsafe situations just so they can still see their families. Patients at end of life are again refusing nursing homes because they want their families around them 24/7 so again are going home to die, often without all the resources they would need because they would only be available in nursing home or hospice. Every day I see people have to make heart breaking decisions because of Covid restrictions. There is no easy answer. The situation with hospitals is not as simple as done are saying. The other non Covid related work did not ask stop because hospitals were over run, it stopped because initially they thought they would be over run. Many hospitals in non bit spots had the quietest few months they have ever experienced. All elective surgery stopped at our hospital. We had a whole centre for his and knee ops sitting empty with staff re deployed. We had 4 medical wards closed. One has still not had to be reopened because people are still avoiding hospitals. This means when they are eventually so unwell they have to be admitted, they are then far more unwell than an earlier admission would have been. When elderly people stop going out for their daily walk and social catch up, they quickly decondition and also get depressed. When couples live together in abusive or just difficult relationships and cannot get out of the house, they are at risk of harm and this is a result of Covid restrictions but not direct Covid harm. As a previous poster said, current restrictions protect some people from Covid but increase potential harm to many more people.

The number of posters who are too lazy to read an entire thread and who keep picking up on vdbfamily’s first post and attacking them for it is getting seriously irritating. So I’m reposting one of their subsequent posts. If posters are going to attack others, they should do it in the proper context, not selectively just so they can be nasty to a specific poster.

@myneighboursarerude the ‘world’ will stop for covid if we don’t get it under control though won’t it? Scans and treatments that can’t be done due to so many covid patients taking up resources and so many NHS staff isolating not available to deliver clinics and treatments that are then cancelled? We are already in this situation to a certain level but the potential ignorance we don’t get this under control is huge

"There is a huge logistical exercise in vaccinating large numbers of people - the UK has bought enough for 20 million people. And don't forget, unlike the flu vaccine, this one requires two doses.

Health and care workers along with older age groups will be prioritised. But given it takes a month from the first dose for an individual to get the full protection and the fact there are 12 million over 65s - nine in 10 deaths have been in this age group - winter is likely to be well gone by the time significant numbers are protected.

England's deputy chief medical officer Prof Jonathan Van-Tam was unequivocal this week when he said he didn't see the vaccine "making any difference" this winter.

And the problem is that once lockdown is lifted in England, cases are likely to take off again. It is, after all, winter, when respiratory viruses tend to thrive.
Does that mean another lockdown in a few months? This is the nagging fear.
Ministers are just "deferring the problem", says Prof Mark Woolhouse, an expert in infectious diseases at Edinburgh University, who sits on the government's committee on modelling.

Even with the vaccine the virus is "not going away", says Sir Jeremy Farrar, a member of the government's Sage advisory group.

It is, he says, now part of humanity and here to stay. Instead, the most we can hope for is providing some protection to those who are most at risk.

The sad reality is that, despite the vaccine breakthrough, we are still going to have to learn to live with Covid this winter - and beyond."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-549328433_

^^ not very encouraging. As a shielder myself, it's not good news.

Also the Pfizer vaccine is only 90% effective and we don't know if you can still carry and spread CV19 when you have had the vaccine - I just heard a programme on Radio 4 which mentioned that - saying it was really important in the publicity campaign for the vaccine that we are totally honest with citizens otherwise they will not trust the state enough over this issue.