Brownies virtual meetings

[Redwinestillfine]

DD did Brownies every week before lockdown and loved it for the social interaction. Since then we had activities sent through the post for badges etc. but she's not really that Interested. Then they start zoom meetings in September. She is not really keen on doing activities via zoom so we haven't joined in. The leaders have now started putting pressure on us for subs. DD won't want to leave Brownies ( I would happily leave, but then it's not my cup of tea), but she wants to wait until meetings are in person. Is anyone else paying subs to hold a place? The emails make it sound like if we don't pay then DD will have to leave.

Dd2 is having none of Zoom, and I'm so glad as it brings back the horror of lockdown and home learning from when dd1 was doing it. I am however paying the subs. They are struggling like everyone else and have put so much effort in. Ours have done some outdoor meetings though before clock change and are hoping to be able to move indoors at some point in the future. Even if that want the case, if not paying meant giving up the space I'd still pay as it's a fab bit over subscribed unit.

@CeramicGuineaPig

DS is the same with Cubs, he has not engaged at all with the Zoom meetings or any activities during lockdown. They haven’t actually asked for subs, but I would be OK paying them just in order to hold the place, as I know what a massive waiting list they have.

I'm in this position with my DSs. Being a section assistant, I'm involved in leader chats and I'll be pleasantly suprised if DS2 ever goes to Beavers again as I doubt the leaders will bother with F2F before Easter when he turns 8.

Doubly frustrating when my own brownie pack at the same base has done everything we can to physically meet, but my children can't get that benefit.

I will pay anything requested to subs/ census as the unit faces those costs and I want it to survive. I also want DS to have continuity of progression to Cubs.

My daughter unit asked for half subs as are suppling craft stuff for the Zoom meeting but only from girls that are joining in and was also stated if the family is struggling financially to message the leader privately to work something out so I am happy to pay.

I'm in Scouting, not Guiding, but as you may have seen in the news 500 Scout groups, roughly 7%, are at risk of closure from loss of income. And these are mostly the ones in the most deprived areas, where kids benefit the most from what Scouting offers them.
I appreciate it feels a bit unfair having to pay full subs for online, especially if your child doesn't want to do the online stuff. But if the longer term outcome would be closure of the group, then everyone loses out.

Still paying £12 per month each for my 3 who are in scouts and beavers. The 2 in scouts don't like the zoom but I'm happy to keep paying to keep the group going

I’m happy to pay. In fact the amount they’d asked us for was so small I considered paying more.

I’m a huge supporter of GG and want them to still be there post covid. I know the census is massive this year.

Ours have options of full subs or half subs as we’re running on zoom. Zoom meetings have been working much better than we thought and are better as we‘ve got more confidence about what works. Tonight’s remembrance activity was v touching. If lots of people don’t pay, then these groups will close which would be a huge shame - they do so much in terms of life skills and confidence for children.

My daughter does guides, she loves it but she doesn't like the zooms so doesn't take part in them, I do continue to pay the subs though because she wants to go back when they can meet face to face.

@RedskyAtnight

Unless your group collects it separately, the annual subscription to GirlGuiding will eat up a large proportion of your subs. (It was getting on for half of all subs when I was a brownie leader). This is a cost they still have to pay while your daughter remains registered. It's possible that your group may be saving on some costs such as rent and activity costs and I'd hope they could pass these onto parents via lower subs.

Annual census is payable each February to GG U.K. it's usually in the region of £30 per girl for the year. It covers insurance, training, programme development etc.

Some units ask for this separate to the termly subs each Feb. Some include the annual census in the weekly subs, in which case parents may not be aware they are paying it.

I would have thought most units would be able to reduce the termly subs amount paid at the moment, as they won't be paying for hall hire. Although in some areas, such as the one where I volunteer, the District owns its own Guide Hut, which is used by about 10-12 units.
The costs of having this facility won't go away just because units aren't using it for meeting (although electric bills would be lower), so the units will still need an income from parents to pay their share.
Lots of girls are leaving Guiding atm, because Zoom meetings just aren't the same, particularly for the younger girls in Brownies and Rainbows. I hope GG U.K. has sufficient funds put aside to see them through a rainy day and significant drop in income.

We've reduced our subs down to £5 a month (normally £15). But yes people pay if they're kids are registered.

Understand the nightmare of zoom
But hopefully it's just for the 4 weeks and we'll be back in person again.

Like I say, happy to pay to hold a place, or as a donation. I think the tone of the message just threw me. We have had no face to face interaction since March. I wish I was confident that meetings will resume soon, but I suspect we'll be in an extended form of lockdown for a while given today's figures....

My dds both do Brownies and Girlguides. Neither have asked for subs and we have been doing zoom meetings since June time. We’ve bought all the equipment needed, the venue isn’t charging as it’s from home, so I can’t see why they’re asking for subs?

@Longdistance have you seen the other comments in the thread? Do you pay the insurance separate? Do you think the leaders should pay their own insurance of £37 and volunteer their time? They have to purchase uniform themselves and many don’t claim back for resources (£98 on home resource packs for my unit- not including he petrol to hand deliver)

I’m not trying to be bitchy. I’m genuinely curious as whether you feel it’s unreasonable.

We quit.

The leaders are volunteers. If they're asking for you to pay subs, its because they need them to keep the unit running. They're not trying to rip you off or turn a profit.

@helloxhristmas

We quit.

That's a shame that your daughter will be missing out on Brownies when it returns. I hope someone else gets to take your place from the waiting list. Unfortunately a lot of guide units have seen a significant drop in numbers. We have gone from 20 Brownies to 12 (and 2 of them aren't returning my messages). We will of course keep going for those girls who are remaining but it is demoralising when we are spending a lot of time planning activities for them.

Beaver leader here - we're charging full subs and meeting weekly on zoom. Many people don't realise that out of £35 subs, £20 gets sent up through to our group exec and district to hq for hut costs and insurances and membership etc. We run on £15 per child per term. If a parent contacts me to say that their child doesn't want to do zoom meetings I offer them the opportunity to keep their spot by paying just the £20 fee which I have to pay if they're on my list of members. One parent took offence at this and I haven't heard from them since so they lost their spot.

Have you spoken to the leaders and asked about paying to hold a place for your child? Maybe they haven't worded the email/Comms as well as they should but they are volunteers with day jobs and probably haven't realised how it's come across.

Many people don't realise that out of £35 subs, £20 gets sent up through to our group exec and district to hq for hut costs and insurances and membership etc.

I think this thread shows there’s a big misunderstanding about what the subs get spent on. Most people seem to assume it’s just hall fees and materials.

I think leaders could be way more up front about it all - most parents won’t know about the group census fees to HQ. Perhaps it’s discouraged but I think transparency is a good thing.

My son started beavers in September lockdown, it's only been zoom meetings and no one has asked us for payment. If they did I would wait until meetings resumed, it's not the same via zoom, but we didn't struggle to get a place, I don't feel pressure to "hold it".

@helloxhristmas

We quit.

Ex-brownie leader here.

I quit, partly due to the pressure being piled on me by parents to meet face to face when it was impossible. So now the unit has closed. I've been a leader for over 20 years, but it's such a relief to be done with it due to the parental demands. I won't be going back at least until my toddler is old enough for rainbows.

DS's scout group jointly own their premises with guides which they rent to other users.

Since March the building has had next to no income to help cover the costs of running the building because the other groups that use the building haven't been allowed to meet for much of it.

They still have to pay the loan outstanding on the building, the building insurance, gas, electricity, water, maintenance on the building and grounds maintenance.

This isnt a small amount. Ive seen the books. The deficit is quite frightening.

I was reading last week just how many scout troops are close to financially being bankrupt and being forced to close.

Dh's troup will be fine as theyve been financially savvy for a couple of years and had built up enough to cushion themselves but they are unusual and the guides who they share the building with are to put it bluntly, utterly crap with money, and are bloody lucky the scouts are so well run as it will ultimately save them too.

If guides and scouts are asking you for money its cos they are flat broke.

Dh's troup only got the sign off to do face to face again just before lockdown. All sections are desperate to restart. The kids were desperate for it too.

The bottom line here is this. If you want to guiding or scouting groups to survive so that your kids can go to beavers, rainbows, cubs, brownies, scouts or guides anytime in the next 12 months then cough up now or they will simply fold and you wont have the option and opportunity for your children at all. What troops survive will be heavily over subscribed and there will be no spaces elsewhere. Its that simple I'm afraid.

For many groups their very survival is very much at risk and they aren't taking the piss in asking; they really are that bloody desperate.

On a side note, zoom meetings for these groups are exceptionally difficult to organise every single week and to keep tge kids engaged. Many kids cant hold their attention for that long on a call. So i fully understand why not all troops have managed to do them especially as its a volunteer role and so many people have already struggled to balance child care, extra work, home schooling etc that lockdown and subsequently after brought. Have some appreciation for the fact they may not have been in a position to prove activities.

This is about the future existence of these groups now. Do you want them for your kids or not?

Also please keep in mind that subs only cover a certain amount of running costs. Most groups fund themselves by also running numerous fund raising events during the course of the year (which parents would usually end up shelling out for too) which just aren't happening.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-54724463
Covid-19 leaves 500 Scout groups 'at risk of closure'

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-54842923?at_custom3=LR+BBC+Radio+Kent&at_campaign=64&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom1=link&at_medium=custom7&at_custom4=4D4496C2-205D-11EB-9701-06F715F31EAE
Coronavirus: Downe Scout Activity Centre to be sold due to pandemic

An activity centre used by generations of scouts and school children is to be sold due to the impact of the pandemic.

The Downe Scout Activity Centre, on the Bromley-Kent border, was set up in 1929 by Scout Association founder Lord Baden-Powell to train scout leaders.

The hostel and conference centre, Baden-Powell House in South Kensington, London, will also be sold.

The Scout Association said a "drastic downturn" in income since March had led to "severe financial difficulty".

It added that a "massive drop in commercial activity" had already resulted in a number of difficult decisions, including cutting services and making 100 redundancies.

The site, which comprises 86 acres of mostly woodland, regularly welcomed 20,000 annual visitors before the pandemic.

It offered day visits and residential experiences for scouts, guides, schools and other youth groups, as well as activities such as abseiling, archery and shelter building

And

"The sale of the assets will allow us to replenish our cash reserves and focus on supporting local scout groups through this pandemic and in the future".

^^That desparate.

It’s hardly ‘veiled threats’ , your daughter is a member , they are providing a service , it may not be ideal but that is not their fault and if you want your daughter to stay a member then you pay your subs .

I've been paying subs for my son who's in Scouts. They've held regular zoom meetings and though it's a pain and not ideal it's better than nothing at all.

I'm a leader there so I know how much effort we put into the meetings, it's not easy trying to find stuff we can do online every week for an activity that is usually outdoor based.

I know how much money gets spent on overheads too, which is why I don't begrudge paying. Hopefully our group will be ok, I feel so sad for all those groups who will have no choice but to close.