What's life like in other countries at the moment?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I seem to recall tales of Lockdown in France, Spain, Italy and even Sweden taking up a lot of news columns in the spring.

But there seems to be very little now. Obviously there's a lot to fill the papers with currently, so maybe that's the reason?

If you're not in The UK, how's life for you?

[sashagabadon]

@Malin52

Agreed that NZ pop density is a factor. But we have the same density as Finland Norway and Saudi Arabia. The chart shows the vast difference in the figures. Also we don't all live miles from each other surrounded by sheep. In the cities we live in flats and there's loads of large shared houses. We go to busy restaurants, pubs and use public transport....sometimes these are busier than London because we are smaller!

The difference is:

• quick early lockdown
• a lockdown that shut EVERYTHING except supermarkets and even they were closely defined and one in one out. No exceptions for takeaways, food delivery or B&M! Even construction stopped.
• immediate border closure to all except citizens and permanent residents (still in place)
• enforced government quarantine for all border arrivals

And importantly

• clear, thoughtful messaging from the government; it made sense, they gave reasons, they were consistent, they did as they said and they reviewed the approach regularly using expertise and science. Everyone was behind it. Kiwis are belligerent at the best of times and not great at following the rules but hell, this time they did.

The UK did none of these things. Population density is a tiny factor.

Yes there's been some impact but nothing like the impact on the Uk in terms of job losses etc. The brain drain that usually happens with Kiwis flocking to London has reversed as they all decide to come home. Property is booming. NZ tourism is burgeoning as Kiwis holiday in their own beautiful country. Buying local has increased.

Agreed it can't last forever. No one knows how we can reopen Borders when we are in elimination. We are all pretty happy though. Only allowing in those with a Vax cert and tested on arrival? Who knows

I think this is the main issue with the closing border approach. As we saw with lockdown here in the U.K., it is easy to go into lockdown, it’s coming out again that is really hard and I think that is the problem NZ will have now and for 2021.
What is the best thing to do? I have no idea. They can learn from the mass testing approach that countries like China have and here in U.K. we are doing now with mass testing of cities and groups like students for example. It might be possible to mass test the NZ pop or at least the major cities weekly/ fortnightly? That might be a way of relaxing borders a bit or only letting in those with a vaccine certification proof or alternatively just keep going with the mandatory quarantining as that does really work.
It is a bit of a dilemma for policy makers

[Malin52]

@MarshaBradyo

NZ is a key part of the search for a vaccine.

In what way? Not being antsy but interested.

www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-response-planning/covid-19-vaccine-strategy

[DarkMutterings]

@FatimaMunchy

I'd say high 99% compliance- of course always some exceptions. And in the heat and humidity it wasn't great but it's perfectly doable.

As for the home quarantine, it's just been tightened up now everyone is in a personally funded hotel. It's tough, it makes travel expensive and is causing many issues for families but again, there is a view you just 'suck it up' for the overall community

[MarshaBradyo]

A quick scan but I think the vaccine would still be developed without that.

[MarshaBradyo]

It’s more ensuring involvement so you get it rather than a key part

[Malin52]

You are right if course @sashagabadon As a PP posted they are separated from their partner. I am separated from my elderly parents in the UK. We are all separated from our friends and family somehow. The plan was my parents would spend 6m of they year with me in NZ. At this stage I don't know when I will see them. It's not a great thought.

It's not a paradise. It's not the one and only, best outcome ever in the world! No one moves 12000 miles from home thinking Borders will close indefinitely.

[MarshaBradyo]

On HK and borders I’d like to see a best guess for what would have happened if we had shut at around Brighton guy came in.

That would have been before anyone else (bar Taiwan to China iirc) but also the WHO were still saying not to then?

[sashagabadon]

I think Gavi is more about getting the vaccine when it is developed rather than actually doing anything to help develop it. To be fair, NZ cannot test a vaccine without community transition so it was not a country vaccine developers would have wanted to use unlike say Brazil, US etc.
I would imagine NZ will be working with Australia and I think Australia has a deal with Astra Zeneca to manufacture the Oxford vaccine and may have other deals too so I would think NZ will piggyback onto that but I don’t think NZ can claim they are playing a role in helping with the research.

[bluetongue]

I’m in Australia. Things are good for now but I worry how we and NZ going to re-join the rest of the world.

Like the UK fear has been a big part of the campaign to get the populace to comply with the rules. Some of my own family are convinced that Covid is a death sentence and that long Covid and organ damage awaits everyone that doesn’t die. They won’t listen when I tell them that most that get Covid with have very mild symptoms or be asymptomatic. My own sister has decided that it’s the end of the world as we know it.

With this in mind it will be very hard to convince many in Australia to re-open the international borders. Even with a vaccine. Even though there are countless other health risks and dangers out there that we don’t shut the world down for.

[waltzingparrot]

If you are in countries where the schools are shut, are you concerned of a looming mental health crisis amongst the children? Are your children more resilient?

In the UK it's really talked up in the media and a reason for keeping schools open as much as the education. Yet I wonder what percentage of children are affected in this way. There's so much contradictory information now, it's hard to know which of schools shut/open is the best policy in handling the crisis. Obviously keeping schools shut is the preferred policy in some countries.

[sashagabadon]

@Malin52

You are right if course *@sashagabadon* As a PP posted they are separated from their partner. I am separated from my elderly parents in the UK. We are all separated from our friends and family somehow. The plan was my parents would spend 6m of they year with me in NZ. At this stage I don't know when I will see them. It's not a great thought.

It's not a paradise. It's not the one and only, best outcome ever in the world! No one moves 12000 miles from home thinking Borders will close indefinitely.

Your elderly parents if in the U.K. should be getting a vaccine here in the next 2-3 months or so. Fingers crossed anyway. So it might be possible for them to visit you in NZ should you allow vaccinated people in at some point in 2021

[Tadpolesandfroglets]

@Malin52 with the greatest respect NZ is apparently in one of the worst economic slump on record so no, economy is not 'doing fine'.

[ConfusedcomMum]

If you are in countries where the schools are shut, are you concerned of a looming mental health crisis amongst the children? Are your children more resilient?

I might be mistaken but what I understood from the pps upthread is that mostly everything else is open so soft play, zoos, museums etc. It's the opposite approach: believing that most of the spread happens in schools but that the risk is lower elsewhere.

[Malin52]

Well sure we are no major pharmaceutical research centre. As everyone keeps saying 'NZ is a tiny country' but we get involved and try to pull our weight. We don't stand back and wait for someone to drape a coat over a puddle.

"New Zealand’s government has allocated $37 million to a Covid-19 vaccine strategy that will support local research and aims to give Pacific Islands nations greater access to coronavirus controls and treatment.
The funding will also support international collaborations and “be part of a global coalition led by the European Union whereby countries are cooperating to find a vaccine as quickly as possible”.

Clark said that $10m would be used to fund NZ research and $5m to develop national manufacturing capability for a vaccine. Up to $15m will support international research collaborations, including projects managed by the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations.
A further $7 million will support aid programmes that distribute vaccines to developing countries.

The Covid-19 vaccine strategy outlines how New Zealand will contribute to global efforts by ramping up our own capability, working with the international community and supporting our Pacific neighbours in the deployment of a vaccine once it becomes available,”

Woods said it was vital for NZ to contribute to international research efforts to develop a Covid-19 vaccine.
“New Zealand has quality researchers and a high-performing research, science and innovation sector with a long history of working with colleagues across the globe to tackle complex global problems.”

[MarshaBradyo]

@Malin52

You are right if course *@sashagabadon* As a PP posted they are separated from their partner. I am separated from my elderly parents in the UK. We are all separated from our friends and family somehow. The plan was my parents would spend 6m of they year with me in NZ. At this stage I don't know when I will see them. It's not a great thought.

It's not a paradise. It's not the one and only, best outcome ever in the world! No one moves 12000 miles from home thinking Borders will close indefinitely.

I concur. I grew up in Aus and my family is there. Nothing like a pandemic to remind you if real distance. It was so natural for everyone in my generation to explore / leave. I wonder if people will think more about emigrating to other side of world in next generation.

Also being Aus / U.K. I don’t think behaviour is that different overall. Just situation.

[Qasd]

But if the New Zealand government “did as they said” why did there health advisor have to resign for breaking lockdown rules?

I think New Zealand approach was sensible but there are a number of reasons it was difficult for other countries to do the same...we not only have a lot more people in the country but a lot more of our citizens live elsewhere (particularly because if free movement in the eu) so we would have needed a lot of hotel quarantine facilities to avoid a situation of telling U.K. citizens they couldn’t come home, a lot more than New Zealand would have needed.

I do feel that in reality New Zealand success was early lockdown and effectively being able to get on top of the virus before lockdown fatigue set up. The initial lockdown in the U.K. was very well adhered too at lest for the first six weeks (the length of the New Zealand lockdown) but that wasn’t long enough because we didn’t lockdown early enough and we haven’t shut the boarder.

But I don’t buy this “everyone else citizens behave” argument..it’s just not backed up be any real evidence and as I said in the case of Australia is quite confusing your all super well behaved apart from the citizens of Victoria of course who needed one of the longest lockdowns on the planet! Basically locking down early before the virus has already established itself in a nation is a good idea and one New Zealand excited well but beyond that lockdown compliance doesn’t seem to be something that has varied enough between nations to think it’s the fundamental factor.

[shamalidacdak]

East coast USA. Schools closed since March. Must wear masks and social distancing but infection rate is high and increasing. Everywhere is open though. Everyone WFH since March, don't see that changing until end summer next year. We are not micromanaged unlike UK- no bubbles, shielding, R numbers etc

[MarshaBradyo]

Malin I think it’s good PR especially last paragraph. And rest will help area. But overall we are relying on high level expertise in a few countries to solve this. Here in UK due to years of previous work on similar vaccine development.

[LangClegsInSpace]

@sashagabadon

I think Gavi is more about getting the vaccine when it is developed rather than actually doing anything to help develop it. To be fair, NZ cannot test a vaccine without community transition so it was not a country vaccine developers would have wanted to use unlike say Brazil, US etc.
I would imagine NZ will be working with Australia and I think Australia has a deal with Astra Zeneca to manufacture the Oxford vaccine and may have other deals too so I would think NZ will piggyback onto that but I don’t think NZ can claim they are playing a role in helping with the research.

COVAX is not just to do with equitable distribution, it is also enabling the pooling of expertise, knowledge and resources to accelerate development and manufacture. It's a truly global effort, without which we would still be a very long way from having a safe, effective vaccine. Every country that has signed up is playing a role.

www.who.int/publications/m/item/covax-the-act-accelerator-vaccines-pillar

[IrishMamaMia]

@Qasd I agree and hate this people behaving rhetoric. Some do, some don't, sometimes it's leadership, sometimes demographics.
I'm from Ireland originally and the population have been so compliant. People have made a lot of sacrifices and they've still had issues with Covid numbers. If it was easy, we'd have sorted it. It's clearly not.

[MadCatLady71]

France

Rules as @miimblemomble outlined, so going slightly mad only leaving the house for an hour a day (especially as the weather is beautiful here on the Mediterranean). Festive lights and displays all going up, but the lovely Christmas market has been cancelled. Numbers are rising, and masks are worn everywhere - but it doesn’t feel as if we are in the grip of something terrible (maybe that is just because the sun is shining). On weekdays there still seem to be as many people out and about as usual, and there’s been no noticeable drop in the numbers of cars on the road. Also, in my town there are lots of little local shops that are classed as essential - boulangeries, pâtisseries, épiceries, pharmacies, boucheries, rôtisseries etc. plus restaurants and cafes now operating as takeaways - so there is still life on the streets of the town (although obviously plenty of places are shut).

[IrishMamaMia]

@Malin52 I really hope you get reunited with your parents soon. That's so tough.

[sashagabadon]

Yes I agree Lang. The global vaccine co operation has been great, humanity at it’s best. I am pretty sure the U.K. is involved but we are also doing our own deals too.
It is absolutely right that richer nations share the vaccine with poorer ones and it looks like that will happen. Unlike swine flu where apparently it is a market free for all

[Rhubardandcustard]

Those in NZ how do you think you will fare though when the borders start opening up after vaccination? As you’ve been kept pretty much away from the virus maybe countries like this will have a tougher time as they haven’t had the same herd immunity as rest of world?

[GADDay]

@Literallynoidea

Agree, I am not impressed by NZ's behaviour at all. Shutting the door and waiting to be rescued is not to me the mark of a great nation.

What would you suggest? Open door policy, rampant virus, decimated economy?

Bloody silly thing to say.