What's life like in other countries at the moment?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I seem to recall tales of Lockdown in France, Spain, Italy and even Sweden taking up a lot of news columns in the spring.

But there seems to be very little now. Obviously there's a lot to fill the papers with currently, so maybe that's the reason?

If you're not in The UK, how's life for you?

[GADDay]

Fwiw, some of the most promising vaccines are being developed in Queensland. We have low numbers, very similar to NZ.

[MarshaBradyo]

@GADDay

Fwiw, some of the most promising vaccines are being developed in Queensland. We have low numbers, very similar to NZ.

Where is it in the process? Is it being trialled somewhere else?

[GADDay]

@marshaBradyo, here is a link

www.smh.com.au/business/companies/csl-confirms-uq-vaccine-production-trials-set-for-december-20201008-p5634i.html

[Smileandtheworldsmileswithyou]

I’m in Kuala Lumpur. Some states here have a lockdown at the moment but it allows restaurants and are to open but for people to sit in smaller numbers of 4 or less, only 2 in a taxi and schools are all closed. Numbers here haven’t ever really got bad and as soon as there is a rise in numbers they respond quickly. We have to wear masks and check in wherever we go on an app on our phone, cinemas and baby classes etc are all closed for now too. We can’t travel out of our state while the lockdown is going on either.

[MarshaBradyo]

Thanks

[OhRosalind]

Italy here, our regional lockdown has got stricter today: orange level. We can’t leave our local council area (unless for work, health etc). Parks and public gardens taped off. Bars and restaurants are takeaway only. Distance learning for high school students. Masks and temperature checks everywhere.

Our local hospital closed its a&e overnight.

[MarshaBradyo]

Looks great for Aus btw if successfully works. But so relieved we ordered Pfizer as time issues obviously pressing here.

[theDudesmummy]

Rural Ireland here: it feels OK right now, I WFH and DH's "work" is building our house, which is just down the road, so as long as the schools stay open (DS is 11) we are pretty much unaffected day-to-day by the current rules. I do miss going to bars and restaurants, cultural events etc, which we have not done since before March (even when they were open in the summer, why take a chance when you don't have to?).

What is difficult though is that we don't know whether the DDs, who are both at Uni in European countries, ill have any chance of coming home for Xmas. Atm there is a 14-day quarantine for anyone coming from either of their countries, and they get at the most a week's holiday over Xmas, so it does not look good. If Ireland say that you can dipense with the quarantine if you have a negative test, there may be a chance, but whether they can just gets tests on demand where they are is uncertain (one is a medical student and working in a hopsital so that may be easier for her to pull off, I suspect, the other one much less likely).

[Aebj]

Western Australia . Life is pretty much the same. Just have crosses on the floors, hand sanitizer everywhere and posters up to stay at home if unwell, hand washing etc.
We are lucky. My parents are in Devon and they didn’t go out of the village the first time round but they seem abit more relaxed this time and going to the supermarkets.

[Malin52]

[quote Tadpolesandfroglets]@Malin52 with the greatest respect NZ is apparently in one of the worst economic slump on record so no, economy is not 'doing fine'.[/quote]
One of NZ's greatest slumps yes at 12% for the period over lockdown. NZ has only ever previously been affected by the 2ww and the GFC but only in minor ways.

The UK has had a 23% slump.

NZ is predicted to bounce back quickly given short sharp lockdown and now very few restrictions. I doubt city centre traffic and retail shopping will ever get back to what it was and I think that's the same in every country. I think people have recognised it for the pointless commercialism it always was.

[CornishYarg]

NZ is fairly close to being self sufficient when it comes to food (I think). The U.K. imports more food than it produces. The UK is also an international business hub in a way that NZ isn’t. It also shares an open border with ROI, so unless they did the same, it would have worked.

I don’t think closing borders was a feasible strategy.

Agreed. Also, NZ and Australia's imports/exports have to arrive/leave by plane or ship (large container ones as it's a long way to the next country). Whereas although GB is also an island, it's one you can drive to from mainland Europe.

So imports to Aus/NZ arrive in large quantities at ports and airports then they're distributed around the country by Aus/NZ workers, and vice versa for exports.

Whereas here, huge numbers of UK lorries head over to mainland Europe with exports and huge numbers of European lorries drive here with imports. It's extremely difficult to close our borders without either cutting off our supply chain or making a major structural change to the way we import and export, which isn't something that can be done quickly.

[CarrieCat]

I get some French news in my newsfeed and masks compulsory from age 6 in school but some parents in the Dordogne i think it was have been campaigning for it to be optional.
High School students and teachers have bern striking about the lack of covid measures in schools

[TheSunIsStillShining]

Without long analysis just a quick look of numbers and school open/close graphs there does seem to be a high correlation and some outliers.

education.org/country-tracker

Looking at many european graphs it does seem obvious that holiday travel made things worse starting upward numbers in many countries by mid/late Aug. Then schools started and many skyrocketed.
Caveat: this is just at a glance.
Unfortunately this tracker doesn't distinguish between primary/high school which is a real shame.

[anxiiousone]

Population density must factor in?

Uk density 275 people per square metre

Australia density 3.2 people per square metre

A huge difference!

[TheSunIsStillShining]

a pp mentioned that in HK they just "suck it up for the benefit of/to society"

I think this is a key concept. In Europe ppl have become self centered and complacent. This, i think, is a natural phenomenon of not having real enemies and threats in the past 60 -80 years. There's a whole generation (and a half) who forgot that we have to act as one because they never needed to. This individualistic thinking is reaping it's rewards not just re:covid, but look at the populists gaining space in general.

Especially in the UK I find it really interesting that small communities can be wonderful. People coming together when needed, helping out. But when we would need to step up on a societal level and put society needs in front of personal - brits fail massively. It has a lot to do with the past very many years of gov communication as well..I wouldn't say it's 100% the individual's fault, it's more like a byproduct of the past decades.

on another note: I love how ppl bang on about education being so important, blabla.... Given the news in the past many months I would say it is fairly obvious that educational spend was totally not worth it. The amount of people who can be manipulated so easily with blatant and obvious lies highlights a huge, systematic problem with UK education.

[TheKeatingFive]

I think this is a key concept. In Europe ppl have become self centered and complacent. This, i think, is a natural phenomenon of not having real enemies and threats in the past 60 -80 years.

I think it’s more that the West is a more individually based culture and a lot of Asia more collective. That’s not a recent thing, it’s about norms built over thousands of years. We were never going to overturn that overnight.

[Frazzled2207]

@anxiiousone

Population density must factor in?

Uk density 275 people per square metre

Australia density 3.2 people per square metre

A huge difference!

this is misleading because in Australia 99% of it is empty and the remaining 1% or so is urban areas in which the vast majority of the population are crammed. Australian cities are not significantly more densely populated than in the UK. I do agree though that the way the population is spread in the UK, perhaps especially across the North of England (lots of cities close together) has been a reason we are badly affected.

In Australia's cases I imagine they were mostly spared the worst because they don't have anywhere as near much international movement in the first place than us - regardless of people coming and going the vast majority of our food comes across the channel so there is constant movement. Australia could close its borders quickly whereas it was never realistic for us to do so.

[FatimaMunchy]

Are you sure Anxious one 275 per sq metre doesn't sound right.

[Frazzled2207]

*not significantly LESS populated that should read

[MarshaBradyo]

@TheKeatingFive

I think this is a key concept. In Europe ppl have become self centered and complacent. This, i think, is a natural phenomenon of not having real enemies and threats in the past 60 -80 years.

I think it’s more that the West is a more individually based culture and a lot of Asia more collective. That’s not a recent thing, it’s about norms built over thousands of years. We were never going to overturn that overnight.

Agree with this. There was an interesting chart on individualism posted a while back. US / U.K. and Aus highest. V Asian at lowest.

But there is also infrastructure that reflects and reinforces it.

Personally I choose to live on these countries and appreciate the liberty but others might prefer China or wherever.

[TheSunIsStillShining]

@TheKeatingFive

I think this is a key concept. In Europe ppl have become self centered and complacent. This, i think, is a natural phenomenon of not having real enemies and threats in the past 60 -80 years.

I think it’s more that the West is a more individually based culture and a lot of Asia more collective. That’s not a recent thing, it’s about norms built over thousands of years. We were never going to overturn that overnight.

Thank you for rephrasing it to be more adult like and cultured :)
Exactly my thoughts.

I wouldn't expect it to be overturned, but -as we see in Germany/Finland/Norway- clear communication helps a lot!

(but had to nip in to DS's room 3 times to help with his history HW. Only to be shut down after 2 sentences that I clearly don't get it.... teenagers...oh what fun.... )

[MarshaBradyo]

The amount of people who can be manipulated so easily with blatant and obvious lies highlights a huge, systematic problem with UK education.

What messaging are you referring to?

Most of it has been packaged as simple but easy to get.

I do think people need to better read the media as that is very strong on speculation and generating clicks in U.K. over neutral reporting

[TheHoneyFactory]

i agree population density does factor but it is misleading as something like 85% of australians live in urban areas - mainly a tiny strip hugging the eastern seaboard. it is one of the most urbanized populations in the world.
as i said i dont disagree with your point re pop density & covid i just think its important to note that in the scheme of population... the large swathes of Aus are very much less populated.
i do think that what gets missed alot when considering covid is the fact that countries that have indigenous populations - which are largely based on oral teaching and cultural practices had/have a massive cultural and social obligation to protect these populations. If covid got into some of the homelands it would likely rip thru, due to pre existing conditions and isolation/healthcare - not only would the elders be at incredible risk, we stand to lose something money cannot buy or be easily replaced - knowledge and tradition.
I think this is missed alot when considering certain countries responses - its not just economics or NZ and Aus being arsey about shutting out the rest of the world, we have moral and ethical obligations to first nations people to do what we can to collectively protect and preserve our culture. thats my view anyways....

[sashagabadon]

Actually I think our media is a lot to blame for the unclear messaging. The rules have always been clear and not even that hard, stay away from other people as much as poss, wear a mask if you can, wash your hands. That is it really. But the media claim confusion, demand exact instructions for every possible scenario in hundreds of articles, phone in etc etc and then complain that there are too many rules to follow and it is confusing.
I watched loads of the press briefings, understood them easily and then read the newspaper reactions full of complaints about not understanding anything. Remember the media nonsense when the messaging changed from stay home to stay alert. What a fuss!
Anyway this is slightly off topic so please go back to countries discussion

[MarshaBradyo]

Sasha I agree with you. When I say read it better I mostly mean learn to avoid the trash ;