What's life like in other countries at the moment?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I seem to recall tales of Lockdown in France, Spain, Italy and even Sweden taking up a lot of news columns in the spring.

But there seems to be very little now. Obviously there's a lot to fill the papers with currently, so maybe that's the reason?

If you're not in The UK, how's life for you?

Japan here.

We've had more than 110,000 confirmed cases, with 1,800 deaths so far.

But we are seeing a surge right now, with 1,634 cases on Thursday (nearly 400 in Tokyo on one day, which is the highest since August)

I know these figures seem really low compared to other countries, but its a very fine balance - we could still see a big rise over the winter.

Life is not too restricted really (we never had a Europe-style lockdown - wasn't possible due to constitutional limits on restricting freedoms).

Schools were shut right at the beginning of the pandemic (earlier than most other countries) but they reopened before the summer. Universities are still mostly all on-line.

I am working from home two days a week and going into my workplace the other three days - its a way of staggering the number of staff in the office at one time, and easing congestion on public transport.

Of course, wearing masks is a very normal thing here - very common in allergy season, and over the winter to prevent flu infection (although I was always very anti-mask! Now I wear one all the time).

If you know anything about Tokyo, you'll know the trains are packed - but infection from public transport is very low - everyone wears a mask and no-one really talks on the train or bus...

Restaurants are operating - of course with social distancing measures in place.

There is even a domestic travel campaign at the moment - which has been criticised as potentially spreading the virus nationwide.

I think, actually, indoor gatherings and group drinking parties etc. are probably one of the main infection routes (with household infections also rising recently)

Someone upthread mentioned the rise in suicides - unfortunately, this is a major problem. Japan has the highest suicide rate out of the G7 countries, and the pandemic has made it worse. There were nearly 2,000 suicides in October - with a worrying rise among women. (overall in 2019, there were about 20,000 suicides - compared to about 6,000 in the UK (Japan's population is twice that of the UK))

All in all, Japan is doing fairly well, but any surge over the next few weeks could bring the health service to breaking point (we have a national health system, whereby adults pay 30% of costs at point of use)

Biggest problem is that I won't be able to get back to the UK any time soon - what with quarantine, requirements to get a negative test before re-entry, and mainly, the lockdown and situation in England...

Why VIC numbers went up

www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-07-28/coronavirus-vic-lockdowns-why-arent-cases-coming-down-experts/12495100

Plus inadequate track and trace.

To Italy questions: it's my family in eye of the storm area! The local mayor decides the restrictions and I think many MNetters would approve as they are quite draconian. I don't know the exact rules for schools, just that masks are compulsory all day and the teacher was zooming in, with one of the cleaners sitting in to monitor the kids.

@TanteRose

Japan here.

We've had more than 110,000 confirmed cases, with 1,800 deaths so far.

But we are seeing a surge right now, with 1,634 cases on Thursday (nearly 400 in Tokyo on one day, which is the highest since August)

I know these figures seem really low compared to other countries, but its a very fine balance - we could still see a big rise over the winter.

Life is not too restricted really (we never had a Europe-style lockdown - wasn't possible due to constitutional limits on restricting freedoms).

Schools were shut right at the beginning of the pandemic (earlier than most other countries) but they reopened before the summer. Universities are still mostly all on-line.

I am working from home two days a week and going into my workplace the other three days - its a way of staggering the number of staff in the office at one time, and easing congestion on public transport.

Of course, wearing masks is a very normal thing here - very common in allergy season, and over the winter to prevent flu infection (although I was always very anti-mask! Now I wear one all the time).

If you know anything about Tokyo, you'll know the trains are packed - but infection from public transport is very low - everyone wears a mask and no-one really talks on the train or bus...

Restaurants are operating - of course with social distancing measures in place.

There is even a domestic travel campaign at the moment - which has been criticised as potentially spreading the virus nationwide.

I think, actually, indoor gatherings and group drinking parties etc. are probably one of the main infection routes (with household infections also rising recently)

Someone upthread mentioned the rise in suicides - unfortunately, this is a major problem. Japan has the highest suicide rate out of the G7 countries, and the pandemic has made it worse. There were nearly 2,000 suicides in October - with a worrying rise among women. (overall in 2019, there were about 20,000 suicides - compared to about 6,000 in the UK (Japan's population is twice that of the UK))

All in all, Japan is doing fairly well, but any surge over the next few weeks could bring the health service to breaking point (we have a national health system, whereby adults pay 30% of costs at point of use)

Biggest problem is that I won't be able to get back to the UK any time soon - what with quarantine, requirements to get a negative test before re-entry, and mainly, the lockdown and situation in England...

Is there much talk about the olympics in Japan? I imagine the Japanese Gov is really keen for it to go ahead? I would think with bubbles, testing etc it is very possible. I really hope so. It would be so fantastic for the world to see a united olympics in 2021. In terms of the goodwill and postivity it will bring, it could be the most memorable ever

I don't think we are completely out of the woods, but our state premiers ran roughshod over the Federal government who wanted to follow the UK's pathway and essentially saved us. They will again if necessary.

Bloody oath as the Aussies would say. We'd be toast if the Feds had had their way. Mistakes made certainly, but the premiers held the line against outrageous party political sniping, and that's why things look as they do now.

@sashagabadon
Was reading about Olympics yesterday. I think the plan is generally yes for the athletes (with lots of testing) but spectators- including foreigners- make it a lot more complicated and it’s not clear yet if they will be allowed and likely not in usual huge numbers.
You would think that some kind of cheap and widely available testing might make it theoretically possible.

[quote Frazzled2207]@sashagabadon
Was reading about Olympics yesterday. I think the plan is generally yes for the athletes (with lots of testing) but spectators- including foreigners- make it a lot more complicated and it’s not clear yet if they will be allowed and likely not in usual huge numbers.
You would think that some kind of cheap and widely available testing might make it theoretically possible.[/quote]
Yes I hope so with lots of bubbles going on and social distancing or maybe the vaccine will be enough of a protection by then. Would love to see the Olympic go ahead next year.

@echt

I don't think we are completely out of the woods, but our state premiers ran roughshod over the Federal government who wanted to follow the UK's pathway and essentially saved us. They will again if necessary.

Bloody oath as the Aussies would say. We'd be toast if the Feds had had their way. Mistakes made certainly, but the premiers held the line against outrageous party political sniping, and that's why things look as they do now.

Totally agree.

Whilst Anastasia's Cheshire Cat like grin is starting to wear a bit thin, she saved our bacon in Qld.

We have further easing of restrictions here from next week. Stadiums & theatres back at full capacity, weddings/funerals up to 200. So nearly normal.

Not to mention, the promising vaccine which doesnt require cold storage from The University of Queensland.

A friend (originally from the uk) posted from australia on fb saying how proud they were of 14 days with no new cases, and that it had been really hard but they did it.
Im happy for them but it made me frustrated that actually its been just as hard for a lot of people in the uk, and a lot of people have given up a lot and stayed in/abided by the rules and its not neccessarily because "we" collectively haven't tried hard enough.(maybe I read too much into it)

@TanteRose I am really intrigued as to how Japan has done so well without a strict lockdown. What is the policy in Japan on mask wearing in schools? Do children wear them for lessons? If so, from what age? Do you have any idea how Japan has done so well in the absence of a strict lockdown? Is there widespread Covid testing?

Fitzbosshoes if your relative is in Victoria the measures were pretty harsh, especially in Melbourne.

Dd in Amsterdam. Two week shutdown of bars, museums etc. Restrictions on how many in your home. No drinking alcohol in parks (I know, sounds weird, but they tend to move parties outside. She was surprised to see people moving tables, chairs etc into parks for parties) Schools open. Hopefully coming to an end soon.(she’s au pairing and though her host family are lovely, she’s missing the little au pair community and going to galleries during the day). Doesn’t look like she’ll be home for Christmas though.

Oh, people in Vic, I have a friend there who has been very vocal about the state government, saying it’s infringement of liberty, Marxist power abuse. Is this something that people feel or is it him going totally libertarian?

I'm in the Netherlands.

Museums, libraries, swimming pools etc are closed for two weeks.
Restaurants, bars, cafés have been closed indefinitely, all shops are open.
No fireworks this New Year's eve to relieve pressure on the health system.

fizbosshoes, I can understand why you feel frustrated - those of us in Melbourne felt the same when everyone in the UK was off on holidays and going to restaurants, seeing friends etc all summer, and when schools and universities went back.
I came back to Australia in March, straight into quarantine (luckily I landed the day before mandatory hotel quarantine was introduced) and spent two weeks in my bedroom, not leaving for any reason. DH is a dr, so I didn’t want to risk him catching anything from me.
I came out into a lockdown with no restaurants or shops open, not able to see friends and none of us was allowed to go on holiday anywhere even within the state. Schools, childcare and universities were closed.
In June the restrictions lifted slightly and we had a weekend away, just within our state. Children went back to school.
In July our numbers started to rise again and when we were getting up to 700 new infections daily we went back into a very harsh lockdown. All shops except supermarkets, pharmacies and post offices closed and only one person from a household could go each day. Schools and childcare closed again (universities never went back). We were allowed out for an hour’s exercise a day and only with a person from our household and had to stay within 5km of our homes. We had a curfew from 8pm- 5am. If you worked outside your 5km radius or during the curfew you had to produce a ‘permitted worker’ permit.
Everyone had to work from home if at all possible - offices were closed (and most are only just opening up now very slowly and carefully).
These restrictions came into force at the beginning of August and primary children, year 7,11 and 12 started back to school in mid October after finishing school in July. The other years went back two weeks later. My DDs have done a whole year of online uni and our middle DD, who lives with us didn’t see a single friend from June until last week, although she was allowed to go to work. We weren’t allowed to see the youngest at all during that time because she lives outside our 5km radius.
Masks are mandatory whenever we’re outside our homes, except in our own gardens and almost everyone wears one (except at the beach where I saw very few wearing them last week). Most see it as a small inconvenience if it means we have more freedom.
The restrictions are being lifted slowly and carefully and we know we’re not out of the woods yet.
It has been very long and very tough (not as bad for me as for those who have had young children at home, or young people who haven’t been allowed to leave their homes or see anyone), so that’s why your friend and most of us here feel so relieved and, yes, a little bit jubilant that it hasn’t been for nothing. We now have 15 days of no new infections and our 14 day rolling average is now at zero. Cafes and restaurants are open again (safely spaced) and they’re buzzing, thankfully. I hope they all survive.
In no way do we think this is over and one mistake could undo the hard work, but we have a good testing process now (anyone can get a test if they have any mild symptoms even if they’re not the usual Covid type) and we just go to our nearest testing centre (there are two within walking distance or our house) and pretty much all cases can be traced back to source. Sewage is tested regularly and if it shows up, people in the areas served by each plant are told to look out for symptoms and get tested.
People in the latest hotspot areas are all being tested again just to make sure there’s no residual virus going unnoticed.
It’s been a really shit year for almost everyone around the world and we’ll all be happy when the rest of the world gets to where we are.
We were supposed to be going to the UK to celebrate my Mum’s 80th birthday at Christmas and I haven’t seen DD1 since last Christmas because she lives in Europe and it’s proving impossible to get her here or us there anytime soon.
We need to have empathy and sympathy and support each other wherever we live and I’m sorry for people in the UK having such a horrible time at the moment, especially going into winter. It’s going to be very tough.

@OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow there are certainly people with the view that 'dictator Dan' was doing it for the power kicks but they are very much in the minority and most people supported the lockdown despite how harsh it was. We are still coming out cautiously and still have more restrictions than many countries doing much worse. I think one of the key differences is that we are surrounded by states and countries with no or very low cases so it seemed more achievable and our borders are closed so any gains could be kept. It was also the only path to being able to travel to other states because they all shut their borders to us. I completely understand the very different reception lockdown gets in Europe.

@Fizbosshoes

A friend (originally from the uk) posted from australia on fb saying how proud they were of 14 days with no new cases, and that it had been really hard but they did it. Im happy for them but it made me frustrated that actually its been just as hard for a lot of people in the uk, and a lot of people have given up a lot and stayed in/abided by the rules and its not neccessarily because "we" collectively haven't tried hard enough.(maybe I read too much into it)

I think the narrative changes if the hard work gets you somewhere nicer. Ie a more normal life.

Whereas for us here we got numbers down completely but no respite yet.

Overall we probably had a greater drop in numbers (just a higher starting point). I hear you that it’s depressing not to get the we did it story but hang in there. Hopefully vaccine news will continue to be good.

My brother lost his restaurant job in France because his region has gone back into lockdown
My sister in Portugal is in lockdown again as are my relatives in Spain

Thank you @EagleSqueak that’s a really interesting post. My in-laws family is in Queensland, but they say the way it’s been reported there, it’s been very controversial in Melbourne as the local economy has been ruined (50% of businesses not reopened). That’s not your experience on the ground then? They have also said in their opinion what has helped with public opinion is that in Australia you can look at Europe and decide that the lockdown is the lesser of two evils as compared with living like we do.

I agree @MarshaBradyo. People here complied brilliantly with the first lockdown, and while it wasn’t totally for nothing as it prevented overwhelming the NHS in the spring, it’s got us precisely nowhere in terms of getting our lives and economy back. I’m still complying but throughly fucking sick of the whole thing. I don’t think anyone can blame us for having lockdown fatigue in Europe.

FractionalGains, to be honest, I’m really not sure how many businesses have been lost, but looking around it doesn’t seem that way. The cafes and restaurants and holiday accommodation (now we’re allowed to travel out of the city) is being booked out. I will caveat that by saying that we live in a fairly affluent area and it may well be different in areas where there is less money and people have been more affected.
I really don’t think it has been as controversial as maybe other places are hearing. Most people saw it as a necessary evil which would allow us more freedom, especially to travel interstate where infection has been eradicated. We have the same issues with the media and press agendas as anywhere else. They manage to spin and rewrite what is actually said very effectively, so it depends on where your relatives are getting their information as to what they believe..Listening to some of the questions from journalists at the daily press conferences made me want to bang my head off the wall, they were so inane and ridiculous. Their message might have struck a chord with some, although they’ve all gone strangely quiet now. How the premier, health officers etc kept their faces straight and their tempers in check I don’t know.
I think as thingsareloookingup says, those who don’t support the lockdown are in the minority really. I’m still fairly new to Melbourne, but I’ve been impressed with the determination to follow the science and not be swayed by pressure from the federal government, the state opposition and the press. Dan Andrews got up to do a press conference every single day for 120 days, weekends and Fathers Day included. I think that’s pretty impressive whether you like him or not. The message he has given all the way through has been clear and consistent, again whether you like that message or not.

@FractionalGains small businesses have definitely done it tough but from what I can see the vast majority have reopened and spending is high as people are so happy to have their freedoms back.

Melbourne was one of the first places to go in to second lockdown and Europe was at the time open and travelling and having a good time so we certainly weren't looking there as a cautionary tale for lockdown two. Our cases rose faster after reopening because we were in winter and our government fucked up hotel quarantine so certainly from my perspective I thought everyone would eventually have to do a second lockdown, we just got there first. It was only later when cases started rising in Europe that I realised the difference in perspective.

As @EagleSqueak says the messaging has been clear and consistent throughout that we are following the science to get to the point where we can open safely and stay open. I think the daily press conferences were really important in showing that the government were owning their past mistakes and learning from them. There were regular updates on how they were improving contact tracing or protection of health care workers or improving aged care. Our entire second wave was the Government's fault so they were far from perfect but they really did work hard to address their mistakes.

Thank you both, sounds like things are really looking up there. Particularly interesting what you say about the government messaging, as in my opinion over here that has been an absolute disaster.

I think you’re right fractional. I don’t think the Uk government has the trust of the public and I’m sure that plays a big part.
I hope what you’re living through now is short lived and works. There are many of us willing it to - we have dearly loved family and friends there who we want to be safe and healthy and who we’d like to see as soon as we can.
We always think the world seems a lot smaller in these days of easy travel, but it feels pretty huge right now

The message all the way through has been clear and consistent unlike England then, where it has been anything but.