What's life like in other countries at the moment?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

I seem to recall tales of Lockdown in France, Spain, Italy and even Sweden taking up a lot of news columns in the spring.

But there seems to be very little now. Obviously there's a lot to fill the papers with currently, so maybe that's the reason?

If you're not in The UK, how's life for you?

[LindyLou2020]

My daughter, late 20's, lives and works in Chicago. She would give anything right now to be home here in NW England. Many laws are made at state, not national level, so rules vary depending on where you live. But generally, she says the British are paragons of virtue, compared to the American people, when it comes to complying with restrictions. Their restrictions are far less severe than ours, and it does seem to be the case that a) the economy is more important than health, and b) American "covidiots" are merely following the appalling example of their outgoing twat of a President. It gives me no pleasure to say that she is adamant that the situation is far worse there than here.

[Tadpolesandfroglets]

Have a friend in Hong Kong, very few deaths there. Under 150.

[LilyPond2]

@TanteRose Just coming back rather belatedly to say thank you for answering my question upthread. Haven't read the Economist article yet, but certainly plan to.

[echt]

That sounded rude. There's a vocal minority who routinely style the Victorian Government as one man: Dan the Dictator. To read the comments page of such a rag as The Australian and occasional green-ink commentators in The Age is to see Victoria as a socialist state.

I wish.:o

[echt]

I have a friend there who has been very vocal about the state government, saying it’s infringement of liberty, Marxist power abuse. Is this something that people feel or is it him going totally libertarian?

Yeah. It's him.

[PuffinShop]

Everything's on the right track in Iceland. Kids' sports allowed again from next week, hairdressers etc reopening and all teenagers in high school allowed to return to in-person learning (with 25 people in a room max but that's pretty manageable).

//www.covid.is/data

[Lostonadustyrock]

Spain here - Catalunya.
Weekend lockdown - no leaving the city, big shopping centres and shops closed.
Night time curfew 10-6 (or 10-4 if you have a doggy whose legs are crossed) - the police are out stopping people who are out during curfew. During the week we can leave the town but not Catalunya.
Masks if you step outside your door - I'd say 98% compliance but some prefer to wear as a chin bra (mainly men as far as I can see?).
Sanitiser in all shops and you will be marched back to to the sanitiser point if you forget!
Bars and restaurants all closed except for delivery.
Hotels open but occupancy v low. V few tourists.
Lots of protests, some have turned 'not naice' though its thought that the not naice element was a planned tactic by far right groups to undermine....something.
Schools open thank goodness, playgrounds open. Beaches open.

Officially we are staying at home unless absolutely necessary (and we actually are, it's v boring) but in reality you can go out for as long as you like within the boundaries of city or region (depending on day) and nobody will bother you unless you're not with a mask or you're eating outdoors.

Private hospital ICUs have been requisitioned by the public sector in case they're needed but for now things seem to be stabilising.

V tentatively we may have passed the peak.

[EagleSqueak]

janaus50 I agree with you. My friend who escaped Romania under Ceaucescu is pretty unimpressed with the Dictator Dan rhetoric, understandably.
I’m happy to wear a mask for as long as it takes too, despite hot flushes, lung damage from whooping cough and 30+deg temperatures. It’s a piece of fabric, not a scolds bridle!

[thingsarelookingup]

janaus50s I could understand some of the anger against Dan during lockdown when people were suffering and he was the obvious target for that feeling but some of it was a bit ridiculous. And yes the failings in hotel quarantine were a very special brand of stupid.

[TanteRose]

[quote LilyPond2]@TanteRose I am really intrigued as to how Japan has done so well without a strict lockdown. What is the policy in Japan on mask wearing in schools? Do children wear them for lessons? If so, from what age? Do you have any idea how Japan has done so well in the absence of a strict lockdown? Is there widespread Covid testing?[/quote]
@LilyPond2

This article is very good (it takes a second to sign up for a couple of free articles)

www.economist.com/asia/2020/10/13/why-the-pandemic-has-affected-britain-and-japan-so-differently?fbclid=IwAR2irHjX9K1Po9nCn77MID12Hlc-ms1_7ektTm7aYa7iWgAtX9UrneOjZzI

children all wear masks at school from primary school up (although not for PE, I think). It's just not a problem - they are used to wearing masks when they take it turns to serve school lunches, for example (pre-Covid).

To get tested, you have to have symptoms and a referral from a doctor to your testing centre.
The track and test system is very good and has been carried out smoothly right from the start - they concentrated on the clusters and tested backwards to find the source. Very methodical.

It's a combination of masks, social customs of not hugging or shaking hands as much as other countries, people generally willing to comply with distancing...
But it's actually a bit of a mystery why Japan has got off so lightly (especially as we had the first big cluster outside China - remember the Diamond Princess cruise ship? Sooo long ago now LOL

[Avondklok]

I'm in Belgium. Cases are about 1200 per 100k on average, with about 500 hospitalisations a day and 200 deaths. Only essential shops open for a month, with takeaways/click and collect options. No visitors in doors, masks obligatory everywhere. You can meet up to 4 people outside, the same 4 people I think. WFH is mandatory where possible. The schools shut for 2 week half term and primary and first 2 years of secondary will go back ft next week. Last 4 years will go to 50/50 distance learning and the rules at school have been made stricter. Canteen is closed and children must have lunch at their desk. Masks have been worn in secondary since September.

The daily positive cases are thankfully starting to drop.

[janaus50s]

@OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow

Oh, people in Vic, I have a friend there who has been very vocal about the state government, saying it’s infringement of liberty, Marxist power abuse. Is this something that people feel or is it him going totally libertarian?

I think a lot of people and the media are firing up about Daniel Andrews. Calling him Dictator Dan, a communist. Protests about liberty. Protests about mask wearing.
I for one admire him, calmly standing up there each day, carefully explains the road map out. The 15 week lockdown was terrible. Devastating for small businesses, economy has taken a huge hit.

[janaus50s]

Melbourne, Victoria

thingsarelookingup. It’s good to hear someone else stand up for Dan Andrews. He got the blame for poor management of Hotel Quarantine. But he can’t fix stupid. He didn’t tell those in quarantine to bribe the security staff with sex. He didn’t tell the stupid quarantine security, not to sanitize, etc.
He faced media conference day after day, calmly advising what to do, set strict rules.
15 long weeks of severe lockdown and we have had 2 weeks with Zero numbers. Slowly getting back to a new normal. But keep those face masks on as long as it takes. Good luck to all the other countries.

[Melassa]

Northern Italy - Lombardy so in red zone and lockdown lite. No leaving your town of residence unless for documented work or health reasons. We’re back to our pieces of paper but the main difference this time is that the parks are open and you are allowed to access them for exercise.
Schools open except for upper senior (14 plus) which have been online learning since the end of October.
Restaurants and non food shops are still open, although eateries close at 6pm for on site dining so takeaway only. Also the supermarkets are not yet restricting entry so fortunately no queuing for ages outside like before.
Mask wearing everywhere for everyone over the age of 6. We had got to not requiring a mask outdoors but after a summer of large groups partying outdoors it got clamped down on. Temp checks everywhere never really stopped since the last lockdown but it has got stricter again in the smaller shops.
Compared to the first wave I have seen more infections in my extended family and friendship groups, whereas before I personally knew no one who had COVID (medical personnel excepted). That said, the testing systems are more efficient compared to before and there has been a lot more testing going on.
There is a lot of COVID fatigue this time around. In the first wave people were optimistic that it would all be done and dusted so compliance was a lot better. This time the social distancing is pretty non existent in a lot of places although mask wearing is still adhered to. There is much less optimism this time around and more of a sense of what’s the point as it will never go away.

[GreekOddess]

The British population was very compliant in the first lockdown. Then Dominic Cummings got away with breaking the rules and everyone gave up. Letting him off the hook has probably cost many lives.

[MarshaBradyo]

@EagleSqueak

I think you’re right fractional. I don’t think the Uk government has the trust of the public and I’m sure that plays a big part.
I hope what you’re living through now is short lived and works. There are many of us willing it to - we have dearly loved family and friends there who we want to be safe and healthy and who we’d like to see as soon as we can.
We always think the world seems a lot smaller in these days of easy travel, but it feels pretty huge right now

At the beginning we did I reckon

But I agree with you re size of world. My family is in Aus this pandemic has changed my perspective.

[FatimaMunchy]

The message all the way through has been clear and consistent unlike England then, where it has been anything but.

[EagleSqueak]

I think you’re right fractional. I don’t think the Uk government has the trust of the public and I’m sure that plays a big part.
I hope what you’re living through now is short lived and works. There are many of us willing it to - we have dearly loved family and friends there who we want to be safe and healthy and who we’d like to see as soon as we can.
We always think the world seems a lot smaller in these days of easy travel, but it feels pretty huge right now

[FractionalGains]

Thank you both, sounds like things are really looking up there. Particularly interesting what you say about the government messaging, as in my opinion over here that has been an absolute disaster.

[thingsarelookingup]

@FractionalGains small businesses have definitely done it tough but from what I can see the vast majority have reopened and spending is high as people are so happy to have their freedoms back.

Melbourne was one of the first places to go in to second lockdown and Europe was at the time open and travelling and having a good time so we certainly weren't looking there as a cautionary tale for lockdown two. Our cases rose faster after reopening because we were in winter and our government fucked up hotel quarantine so certainly from my perspective I thought everyone would eventually have to do a second lockdown, we just got there first. It was only later when cases started rising in Europe that I realised the difference in perspective.

As @EagleSqueak says the messaging has been clear and consistent throughout that we are following the science to get to the point where we can open safely and stay open. I think the daily press conferences were really important in showing that the government were owning their past mistakes and learning from them. There were regular updates on how they were improving contact tracing or protection of health care workers or improving aged care. Our entire second wave was the Government's fault so they were far from perfect but they really did work hard to address their mistakes.

[EagleSqueak]

FractionalGains, to be honest, I’m really not sure how many businesses have been lost, but looking around it doesn’t seem that way. The cafes and restaurants and holiday accommodation (now we’re allowed to travel out of the city) is being booked out. I will caveat that by saying that we live in a fairly affluent area and it may well be different in areas where there is less money and people have been more affected.
I really don’t think it has been as controversial as maybe other places are hearing. Most people saw it as a necessary evil which would allow us more freedom, especially to travel interstate where infection has been eradicated. We have the same issues with the media and press agendas as anywhere else. They manage to spin and rewrite what is actually said very effectively, so it depends on where your relatives are getting their information as to what they believe..Listening to some of the questions from journalists at the daily press conferences made me want to bang my head off the wall, they were so inane and ridiculous. Their message might have struck a chord with some, although they’ve all gone strangely quiet now. How the premier, health officers etc kept their faces straight and their tempers in check I don’t know.
I think as thingsareloookingup says, those who don’t support the lockdown are in the minority really. I’m still fairly new to Melbourne, but I’ve been impressed with the determination to follow the science and not be swayed by pressure from the federal government, the state opposition and the press. Dan Andrews got up to do a press conference every single day for 120 days, weekends and Fathers Day included. I think that’s pretty impressive whether you like him or not. The message he has given all the way through has been clear and consistent, again whether you like that message or not.

[FractionalGains]

Thank you @EagleSqueak that’s a really interesting post. My in-laws family is in Queensland, but they say the way it’s been reported there, it’s been very controversial in Melbourne as the local economy has been ruined (50% of businesses not reopened). That’s not your experience on the ground then? They have also said in their opinion what has helped with public opinion is that in Australia you can look at Europe and decide that the lockdown is the lesser of two evils as compared with living like we do.

I agree @MarshaBradyo. People here complied brilliantly with the first lockdown, and while it wasn’t totally for nothing as it prevented overwhelming the NHS in the spring, it’s got us precisely nowhere in terms of getting our lives and economy back. I’m still complying but throughly fucking sick of the whole thing. I don’t think anyone can blame us for having lockdown fatigue in Europe.

[wonkylegs]

My brother lost his restaurant job in France because his region has gone back into lockdown
My sister in Portugal is in lockdown again as are my relatives in Spain

[MarshaBradyo]

@Fizbosshoes

A friend (originally from the uk) posted from australia on fb saying how proud they were of 14 days with no new cases, and that it had been really hard but they did it.
Im happy for them but it made me frustrated that actually its been just as hard for a lot of people in the uk, and a lot of people have given up a lot and stayed in/abided by the rules and its not neccessarily because "we" collectively haven't tried hard enough.(maybe I read too much into it)

I think the narrative changes if the hard work gets you somewhere nicer. Ie a more normal life.

Whereas for us here we got numbers down completely but no respite yet.

Overall we probably had a greater drop in numbers (just a higher starting point). I hear you that it’s depressing not to get the we did it story but hang in there. Hopefully vaccine news will continue to be good.

[thingsarelookingup]

@OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow there are certainly people with the view that 'dictator Dan' was doing it for the power kicks but they are very much in the minority and most people supported the lockdown despite how harsh it was. We are still coming out cautiously and still have more restrictions than many countries doing much worse. I think one of the key differences is that we are surrounded by states and countries with no or very low cases so it seemed more achievable and our borders are closed so any gains could be kept. It was also the only path to being able to travel to other states because they all shut their borders to us. I completely understand the very different reception lockdown gets in Europe.