Covid Positive twice in three months?

[ProudAuntie76]

Hello, can someone tell me if this is possible?

Covid acquired in hospital after operation in August. Tested negative two weeks later. Mild symptoms at the time, loss of smell, fatigue.

Not been anywhere at all since except corner shop once a week and a couple of walks round block a week (elderly and vulnerable so housebound but needed trip for mental health). Every person they’ve been in contact with has tested negative this weekend. They’ve tested positive again as part of a mass testing.

How is it possible? False positive? Still some Covid lingering from August? New infection picked up at corner shop?

Very worried as they live with a Shielder who we managed to protect last time (isolated after hospital stay) but this time has been in close contact.

How is he though? Is he well or is he sick with symptoms?

@Cocopogo

It’s very confusing. I had covid last month and I’m desperate to see my shielding mum. I was hoping the anti-bodies would be in my system for a few months so I could at least see her and spend xmas knowing I can’t get it again so soon and she’ll be safe but the more I read up on it the more I think I’m not going to see her

Could you self isolate for two weeks before seeing her?

@KenDodd

How is he though? Is he well or is he sick with symptoms?

He’s got no Covid symptoms at all. His mental health has markedly deteriorated this week (not making much sense when you speak with him and seeming very low in energy) so I don’t know if that’s something to do with being Covid positive. But he’s eating (taste and smell good) and sleeping fine and physically no symptoms.

First time round he had no cough or temperature, just loss of taste and smell, tiredness and breathless for a couple of days. He had it quite mildly. This time, absolutely nothing that would have led me to suspect Covid.

I read somewhere that the test cannot tell is the virus is dead but still shedding from the body , but we have been given such varied and conflicting information its hard to know what to think

Two people could touch the same infected surface and then neither, one or both of them could actually get Covid as a result. If you touch a surface and wash hands or sanitised immediately without touching anything else there's a very high chance the virus will be cleaned away. If you rub your eye after touching an infected surface - in it goes, lick fingers, bite nail, hold food, stick finger up nose etc etc in it goes. It could be on every surface in the home but that doesn't mean you will catch Covid - it needs an entry into the body.

@TheTeenageYears

Two people could touch the same infected surface and then neither, one or both of them could actually get Covid as a result. If you touch a surface and wash hands or sanitised immediately without touching anything else there's a very high chance the virus will be cleaned away. If you rub your eye after touching an infected surface - in it goes, lick fingers, bite nail, hold food, stick finger up nose etc etc in it goes. It could be on every surface in the home but that doesn't mean you will catch Covid - it needs an entry into the body.

I understand this. Part of his mental illness is OCD around cleanliness. He puts disposable gloves and a mask on before leaving the house for his weekly trip to the shop, removes gloves and disposes of gloves immediate after shopping and washes hands in downstairs loo as soon as he gets in, then fresh pair of gloves and antibacs anything he’s bought with the exception of papers/magazines etc, then washes hands again. I know it’s extreme but he was worried about the household. Maybe he has picked it up from the newspaper though. He doesn’t pick his nose or bite his nails and is careful not to touch his face. He’s been very careful it just goes to show how contagious this is.

The tests are so bloody sensitive and frankly, from what I've read about the testing system, procedures are quite lax. Tests are out through 'cycles' and the more cycles they do, the more likely they are to discover a positive.

It could easily be a false positive or dead viral fragments being picked up this time compared to the previous test.

@ILookAtTheFloor

The tests are so bloody sensitive and frankly, from what I've read about the testing system, procedures are quite lax. Tests are out through 'cycles' and the more cycles they do, the more likely they are to discover a positive.

It could easily be a false positive or dead viral fragments being picked up this time compared to the previous test.

They're really not, they don't detect active infection a third of the time and the false positive rates are tiny.

“The person who invented the test warned its flawed, it has something like a 90% false positive rate as it picks up all strains of virus not just covid”

Imagine actually believing this! I give up.

@Thingstodotoday

“The person who invented the test warned its flawed, it has something like a 90% false positive rate as it picks up all strains of virus not just covid”

Imagine actually believing this! I give up.

It is actually true that the inventor of PCR said it couldn't be used to detect viruses. The man was a complete lunatic though who spent the last few years of his life trying to prove that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. In sure if he was still alive he'd have signed the GBD and would be spouting all sorts of nonsense.

The false positive rate is 0.8-0.4%.

When you're testing hundreds of thousands of tests every day, some will be a false positive.

I've got that figure from the Lancet.

@ILookAtTheFloor

The false positive rate is 0.8-0.4%.

When you're testing hundreds of thousands of tests every day, some will be a false positive.

I've got that figure from the Lancet.

And? I explained all of this in great detail up thread. Since the person in question is in a high incidence area, the chances of this being a false positive are actually very low.

In all honesty, while it must be treated as an active Covid positive case, given that this person has left the house once a week to shop for 15 minutes tops in a local shop, disinfects their shopping, has a couple of walks on their street a week at a quiet time, has tested positive 10 weeks ago and everyone that’s had any recent contact with them has tested negative...surely this case is as strong as any for a false negative?!

Yeah we will treat it as a new infection. It’s not inner city Liverpool by the way. It’s a very quiet part on the outskirts with mainly elderly residents, no local schools etc, no families etc on the street, he goes for a walk at 6.30am, this positive test was taken a week after his last trip to the shop (he goes on the same day every week for sweets, something to read, a cake etc the full shop is delivered and again antibacced), the family member living with him tested negative, the relative who helps them (works from home, lives alone, gets shopping delivered, no kids and not socialising etc) also tested negative. So really, he could only have caught a new infection in Tesco Express, despite social distancing, he runs straight out if he sees someone not wearing a mask which to be fair only happened once months ago. I think in the back of our minds we do believe it’s more likely he’s one of the very rare false positives than a new infection. But will treat it as a second case of Covid in 10 weeks.

@janetmendoza

Is it not more strange that the person tested negative after just two weeks? Generally people test positive for up to 90 days and much longer than two weeks. They test positive long after they stop being infectious. I would imagine that if they had it in August they are still testing positive from the original infection, with a false negative after two weeks. Do you know why they were tested after two weeks as generally that is not recommended

When my DP had it, right at the start, it was as part of an outbreak of 30 people at his place of work. He had to have a negative test before returning to work. He tested positive, then negative a week later, but then work insisted he needed a more recent negative test (as he was still very fatigued so didn't go back straight after testing negative) and he then tested positive again.

It's crazy, but his GP said the negative was probably a false result.

FIL in a care home had a positive result with PCR. He hadn't been anywhere, no-one else in the care home was positive, and haven't been since, they were all re-tested. He had had several tests, several weeks prior, in hospital, all negative. We can only assume is was a false positive.

Sounds like a false positive to me. Was the swab particularly thorough on the positive test. All that needs to happen is that the swab picks up a bit of dead viral material that's been hanging around and that could trigger a positive test.

There is something on the government website that says you shouldn’t be tested within 90 days of a positive.

@Ratatcat

There is something on the government website that says you shouldn’t be tested within 90 days of a positive.

Is there? They never mentioned this with the mass testing. I’m so used to getting weekly tests for myself and monthly for my patients at the nursing home that I didn’t realise that you were supposed to wait three months. Mind you, I don’t see how that would be possible in Health and Social Care. Private residence like my relative maybe.

The person who invented the test warned its flawed, it has something like a 90% false positive rate as it picks up all strains of virus not just covid.

That's nonsense. A PCR test looks for the specific DNA of Covid 19. It's unlikely to be false positive (negative easier, especially if administered wrong) although the sheer number of tests mean mistakes will happen.

A lot of mild (presumably low viral load) infections seem to be fought off without an antibody response, in which case reinfection is entirely possible.

Even with an antibody response the antibodies fade quickly. I've not seen reports of within 20 weeks but I think there were cases at about 12 weeks so quite possible.

OP, your comments about your relative seeming more confused than usual made me think of a recent report from the Zoe app people in which they say that delirium can be a symptom of Covid in older people. (I've been trying to link to their report, but my computer is playing up.)

@LilyPond2

OP, your comments about your relative seeming more confused than usual made me think of a recent report from the Zoe app people in which they say that delirium can be a symptom of Covid in older people. (I've been trying to link to their report, but my computer is playing up.)

Thanks. I’ll look it up as I have the app. Problem is the confusion isn’t new (just a bit worse) and he’s been referred in the last fortnight to neurology as they suspect he may have a serious underlying condition affecting his movement, mood and cognition. I’m a nurse and can safely say he’s not delirious but the confusion that he already had has worsened.

Anyway, latest news is that he’s being very arrogant, saying he doesn’t care that he has it again and intentionally not being careful around the Shielding relative and my relative that provides care for them. Which is making me hope even more that it’s a false negative.