Is the economy lives indeed?

[Shehz21]

I keep hearing "Lives before the economy" and the reply back to this is "The economy is lives".

Personally my situation is:
My DH lost his job back in March and we are not eligible for UC. He only recently(3 weeks ago)found another job. We were struggling financially, mentally and our marriage took a big blow due to those 6 months.
I used to do some freelancing from home while looking after our toddler and that industry literally died due to Covid. I have always been very anti lockdown, seeing only the negatives due to the amount of stress that we had to go through due to the lockdown, in that affected us to a level where I considered dying rather than living in a state of constant stress. But again this has been due to my very personal situation.
Anyways this just makes me think is the economy indeed not lives? Or maybe I am missing something.
Sorry if this all seems a bit like a confused woman rambling as I am very close to a mental breakdown.

no I don't know anyone who has lost their job through covid.

And you can’t read the unemployment figures?

Or put 2 and 2 together about what that means for public services in the near figure?

Future

That is right, the effects in people's life due to loss of employment/ income/ social interaction will take longer to be seen in the statistics.
There are issues already showing straight away, like long waiting list in hospitals and GPs. But people getting depressed and not recovering, losing their homes, and so on can take longer to show up.

I don't think you understand my point TheKeatingFive. I've not denied that people are losing their jobs but I don't think this economic slump will last for years to come. I think that public services were already slashed to the bare minimum before this and that didn't seem to bother most people considering the party in power. The millions of debt that Brexit has cost the country doesn't seem to bother some people either. Not to mention that the Bank of England are printing a lot of money to cushion the blow. But as soon as a 4 week lockdown is announced then all we hear is about the economy rather than lives. And you don't think there may be another agenda there?

I don't think this economic slump will last for years to come

So you’re looking at the decimation of a wide range of industries and the billions we are borrowing and you don’t think the impact will last for years? I’m speechless. 😳 we’ll be decades getting over this.

The millions of debt that Brexit has cost the country doesn't seem to bother some people either.

They certainly bother me. This all has to get repaid eventually. If people think the post financial crash years were bad, they ain’t seen nothing yet.

There will be a much worse fall out in years to come and more deaths than covid

Agree the long term fallout of this will be a lot worse :(

@bakewelltarty. Absolutely agree. People were quite happy to put up with an economic downturn from brexit, also knew that the last government was imposing legislation that would hit the poor, vulnerable and disabled the most in the form of bedroom tax, UC etc. That was ok because those people weren't like 'us'.

There is lot of mental health issues coming up. I think it is the lack of socialising. People cannot share their thoughts and fears with friends and family as normal. It is weighting very heavy on some people.
And of course some sectors are suffering disproportionate consequences, retail/ travelling and holidays/ pubs and restaurants.
I think the economy itself will adjust (as it always does), and more retail wil be done online generating other type of jobs, pubs and restaurants may change into take aways in the short term (another different type of job), and holidays/ entertainment and so on will most likely have to find other jobs in the interim. There are sectors that are actually expanding, so new jobs appear, which will balance a bit at least the economy.
But I sense too much doom and gloom on some people who are struggling to see any light and keep positive. They have been hit hard by it now, and they cannot get to see that they will come out of it.

Following from last poster, if they had not reduce services like the NHS to the bare minimum with all their cuts, we would be in a much better place now. Imagine having extra doctors, nurses, hospital beds, less delays for people waiting for their normal treatment.
And let's see what they finally do with Brexit. Whether they are going to sign the agreement or not. And my bet is on a no. "Surely they do have a well thought feasible plan for it all"

My hope is that UK will become the maker of whatever UK needs. So more manufacturing jobs are created.
Example, make your own masks and PPE in UK, instead of ordering from China at a time where their borders are closed or they cannot keep up with the demand due to factory closures or lack of staff down with covid.
I hope that in the meantime there are jobs enough, we will be able to support our families.
But if we keep buying abroad, how is paying WTO fees going to affect us?

@TheKeatingFive

I think lockdown is the red herring here. We should have had much better ways in combatting this

I agree with this particular point. The biggest tragedy of all is that one lockdown has already been wasted and this second one will almost certainly go the same way.

Every second of lockdown should be seen as precious time to put systems in place to avoid having to do it again. It should be the last resort of last resorts. I think history will judge the immediate post lockdown period as the biggest failing.

Absolutely. They had months of full lockdown in which to get an effective tracing system up and running and develop ways to support businesses safely. We got "eat out to help out" and the worlds worst T&T systems

@ForthPlace

I think lockdown is the red herring here. We should have had much better ways in combatting this, testing, quick returns, expansion of hospitals, key worker job expansion, support to really make schools safe...prevention better than cure, whatever it takes.

This government does not plan ahead. They could have invested so much more into the above and less in furlough and picking up the economy, now and overtime.
Public services were on their knees before this with so many cuts, police, schools, NHS, army, that we have no reserves to draw on.

I don't want any of my family and friends to lose their lives, given a really harsh choice, yes I would rather me and my family be in poverty and alive, than not at all.

This

Sorry you have had such a hard time OP.

There is a very strong correlation between life expectancy and rates of unemployment and poverty. This has been studied all over the world but this is an accessible report from the BMA reviewing links between poverty and negative health outcomes from 2017: www.bma.org.uk/media/2084/health-at-a-price-2017.pdf. Recessions tend to lower life expectancy too (probably due to the resulting poverty).

We are probably looking at 15-20% unemployment due to covid plus underemployment and wage stagnation combined with the impact of having to repay government borrowing and massively decreased tax revenues.

I think that will inevitably result in a decreased life expectancy and quality of life for a large proportion of the population and if you add up the years of life lost due to lockdowns in future this figure will probably be higher than years which we have saved from covid due to locking down.

The economic impact isn't really comparable to Brexit. Brexit was forecast to decrease GDP by c.2%. Covid wiped 20% off GDP in the second quarter of this year and has caused much higher government spending than Brexit would have (not that I think Brexit was a great idea).

While the economy will adapt to some extent and some will find new jobs, you can't replace whole sectors by retraining people to make masks and act as covid marshalls. And if it was economically viable to manufacture more in the UK we probably would - if you want to set up a manufacturing business now you would go to a country without covid regulations which could shut down your business at any time and a high level of regulation, minimum wage etc or you set up a highly automated plant so that you don't have to employ too many people (like Amazon has). We are in a situation where millions of relatively low skilled people who used to work in retail and hospitality will be long-term unemployed and finding something for them to do will be really challenging without government money to pay them a basic income / benefits or create jobs for them. Jobs were probably being steadily lost from these sectors prior to covid but the pace of change makes it much more difficult.

There is, of course, an argument that the economy would be worse off without lockdowns but I have never found this particularly persuasive. You can't really argue that a pub which is shut for three months is going to do better than one which operates at lower than usual capacity for those three months because some people are worried about eating out.

MushMonster
"But I sense too much doom and gloom on some people who are struggling to see any light and keep positive. They have been hit hard by it now, and they cannot get to see that they will come out of it."

That could well be me as I am particularly feeling gloomy and doomed about all of this.

However I couldn't agree more with KeatingFive
TheKeatingFive

I think lockdown is the red herring here. We should have had much better ways in combatting this

I agree with this particular point. The biggest tragedy of all is that one lockdown has already been wasted and this second one will almost certainly go the same way.

Every second of lockdown should be seen as precious time to put systems in place to avoid having to do it again. It should be the last resort of last resorts. I think history will judge the immediate post lockdown period as the biggest failing."
The above just resonates so much sense and I am baffled as to how the government did fck all during all that time(let's not count the shambles that was their Track & Trace bs).

@Chessie678
"There is, of course, an argument that the economy would be worse off without lockdowns but I have never found this particularly persuasive. You can't really argue that a pub which is shut for three months is going to do better than one which operates at lower than usual capacity for those three months because some people are worried about eating out"

Definitely agree! I really cannot agree, especially due to my personal circumstances, that the economy would do better without both me and DH out of job because of the lockdown. And taking into consideration we were not sitting at home with ANY benefits from the govt at all. Anyways this probably just makes sense to me.

I wish you and your husband find a new job pronto and all goes well for you OP. And for all of those in similar situations.
Keep positive, and I know that is easy to say.........
I do seriously think that the goverment will have to increase its manufacturing sector in UK. I got my fingers crossed for that.

We’re all going to view things through our own personal circumstances. I am fortunate not to have been affected by job loss and I’m over 50 and not in “peak” condition. So for me personally, I am less inclined to want the virus to run rampant. I definitely would not rather be dead! However I do agree that these lockdowns have been wasted so I can see other people’s perspectives on this. The government needs to be proactive rather than reactive, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

I agree with the poster that said they would rather be dead than have a crap life. It’s all fine and well saving lives when life for those of us who are unlikely to be seriously ill could have crap lives for years to come. Myself and my family are highly unlikely to die of this virus as are the vast majority of people. My sisters parters grandparent have both just had it in their 90s, one at home and one hospital acquired, both fit and well again yet you don’t hear the news telling you those figures

That should say partners