Should I isolate?

[phoebeorpheobo]

Sorry I have already posted this in education but didn't get any replies, would like some opinions if possible..

I am a teacher and today I found out one of my pupils tested positive for covid, I last saw them Wednesday morning as they are in my form. They sit on the front row which is very close to my desk, I also went to them to point something out in their planner for a couple of minutes. They have told the school I was one of their close contacts but the school have said it is up to me to decide whether or not I isolate.
I don't know if I have done the right thing, what would you have decided? Will I be blamed for putting myself in the situation where I need to isolate?

It rather depends on what the risk assessment says. I'd be in trouble for going outside my box, but if I thought I'd been in contact, I'd be in more trouble if I stayed in school knowing I might be infected.

You would be better isolating than going in positive.

Thanks for the replies so far just to add I didn't go out of my box, the edge of their desk is on the edge of my box. However I should have probably told them all to pull their desks back when they arrived but I didn't think.

Have you been within 1-2 metres for more than 15 minutes or within 1 metre for more than 1 minute, even if not face to face? If so then you are a close contact

I know this because I have tested positive today and I have had to list all my contacts and yes, it is hard effectively isolating people and knowing the impact it will have on the school but the impact of whole departments having COVID is far worse. Currently our entire admin office and now me included have confirmed COVID.

Yes, you should isolate. You were close enough to point something out in a planner

14 days from Wednesday.

If they're 'huffy' offer to sit in a very small office with them to discuss it!

You have a responsibility to your co workers & other students. Ask them to explain why that's not important to them.

Hope you don't get it 🌷

At my school you would be told to isolate.

I have proved several times this term that if a positive pupil sits in the back half of my classroom for a lesson I won’t catch it.

I’m still winning the Russian roulette with the front half.

I would focus on the point about their desks being too close to your box when informing your school you are isolating. That’s enough alone, the checking the planner bit is superfluous.

You shouldn't be in that position.

I thought the whole point of PHE asking the questions was so that they can tell people whether to isolate or not. Telling people it's up to them makes them feel guilty for leaving work and guilty for not. You can't win and it's very unfair.

100% you should isolate if

1. You were less than one metre for any length of time
2. You were less than two metres for more than 15 minutes

To be honest if you have been listed as a contact you must isolate regardless

Because it is Wednesday this is when the child would have been at their most infectious so for your own health I would self
Isolate

@manicinsomniac that's exactly how I feel. Especially because I emailed at 3pm yesterday and copied in everyone important in telling them I need to isolate and why and no one has got back to me. Makes me think there's something going on behind the scenes where they are deciding whether I am in trouble.

I don't want to leave work at all I feel so guilty that my kids will be doing cover work for almost 2 weeks

”the school have said it is up to me to decide whether or not I isolate”

Beware op.. this happened to my colleague. The school told her it was her decision whether or not to isolate after coming into contact with a positive case (child) at school.

She decided to isolate just to be safe - for other people’s protection - and the school stopped her pay!!!

They didn’t tell her they were going to do this until after she had been at home for a couple of days. Absolutely shocking behaviour.

Make sure you get clarification before you make a decision. Although, it really should be about doing the right thing, not about money, but the reality is that some people just cannot afford to lose potentially 2 weeks pay.
This is why I think the school is at fault here. If they tell you to isolate they have to pay you. If it’s your decision then I don’t think they do?
You need clear instruction from them.

@PoptartPoptart no way!!! That's really awful behaviour when they were just trying to do the right thing. I really hope they don't do that to me, there will be no cover work being set or marking being done by me if so!

Thing is though if the child (or their parents) has filled in the form correctly then the T&T system will contact you surely. I filled in mine last night and my dh has had an email, and a text last night to say he will he fined if he leaves the house before X date. And a phone call this morning! No option to decide if you think it applies or not- just you must not leave the house.

If the child hasn't put you on the test and trace app but has told the school then obviously you won't get notified, but seriously why aren't people filling in the app properly?? I sat in my COVID addled state and did mine last night, they ask you to make a list when you get tested of everyone you've seen in a week and clearly the child identified you as they told the school. It is incredibly shitty and quite frankly dangerous for there to be a sort of 'official' and 'unofficial' list of school contacts. Either you're on the t&t or you're not and schools shouldn't be putting this responsibility on teachers or on ill people.

I worried myself sick yesterday that I had had to put several senior members of senior staff into lockdown, and coupled with actually having COVID and trying to work from home, and homeschool my kids (bear in mind one symptom of COVID is confusion and being disoriented as well) I really couldn't work out if I'd done the right thing. If everyone just filled in the app correctly without fear they'll be judged the whole thing would operate a lot more efficiently.

Op I would ask yourself genuinely if you believe you are a close contact of this confirmed case and act accordingly. Have you seen your school's risk assessment? In there there should be clear guidance as to what the school determine close contact to be and that should help you.

These are difficult times for everyone. I hope you are ok

I think that notification from the school that you have been in contact with a positive case is, in effect, the same thing as being contacted by track and trace.
The parents obviously contacted the school to let them know, and the school then passes the information to the relevant staff members / children.
Because how would the parents know the details of all the individual teachers/TAs to pass on to track and trace?
I’m not completely certain so I’m happy to be corrected here, but that is how I understood it.

It's difficult that they have made it my decision because I feel like if I do the right thing and isolate they can twist that to say I haven't followed the guidelines properly or I shouldn't have to isolate.

Still no contact back, I know it's Saturday so maybe it will be tomorrow. Just feeling anxious now that I didn't clarify enough in my email that I remained in my box the whole time. Think I will wait for the first response and then make sure I clarify that in my reply.

It's not clear that OP was within 2m of the child for >= 15 minutes. Pointing in a planner didn't take more than 10 seconds.

@phoebeorpheobo could you put in writing exactly everything that happened, how close you were to the child, for how long etc.
Then request they advise you what to do regarding work. Say to them you do not feel comfortable making that decision and that, as your employer, they need to advise you.
They have a duty of care to you (and also to all staff and pupils) to keep you all safe. As a school they have to follow procedures and guidelines. This really shouldn’t be your call and they are being unfair to ask you to make the decision.

This is where a robust testing availability would work.

5 days after potential exposure, I would think you would possibly be incubating or asymptomatic, as most people get symptoms around the 5-7 day mark.

I know we shouldn't test without symptoms, but in this sort of instance - it would be very beneficial!

I have had contact wishing me well for my isolation and guidance regarding setting cover so I feel much better.

@PoptartPoptart that's a good idea I will do that whilst I remember and then if any questions are asked I will have the answers.

@jazzandh I agree, I would ideally like to get a test on Monday but I know I shouldn't if I have no symptoms.

In future I will be making sure the desks are pulled as far back from my box as possible before I begin teaching. It's difficult as like most teachers I'm racing from one floor/building to the other to teach so tend to just get on with the lesson with whatever set up there is as we are already getting started late. In hindsight a few more minutes wasted would have been worth it!

I know we shouldn't test without symptoms, but in this sort of instance - it would be very beneficial!

why? If OP didn't get within 2m for > 15 minutes then the odds are about 3% she has covid from this contact.

If OP gets a negative test at day 7 after the contact moment, then the odds go down to about 0.3% that OP has covid. Is 3% unacceptable but 0.3% is low enough?

I definitely think you made the right decision! You were in reasonably close proximity for presumably more than 15 minutes.

I empathise with you OP and all other teachers.
We had another positive this week, and we got an email (two days later) telling us that we must ensure that the 'teacher safe zone' was 2 metres away from the first row (nearest us).
I teach in 5 different classrooms, rush from one set to another, and get there just before I allow the students in. The rows are crammed in. SLT know this, and I know this. We all know this. I can't move the rows back, there is simply no space.
And half our windows are broken, so have 'don't open' stickers on them (for two years!) - but that's another thread.
Hope you're ok.

What really pees me off, is that the there is an undercurrent of you're to blame' from SLT - but they have done nothing to make it possible for us to carry out the 'suggestions' they make!!

@SophieB100 it's just impossible in some rooms isn't it. Everyone seems to know it's not safe but we all just get on with it.

It was unlucky circumstances though because I had just changed the seating plan on Tuesday and moved the now positive pupil right to the front, and I also saw them for form time plus 1 hour PHSCE on Wednesday when I would normally only see them for 20 mins in the morning.

[quote phoebeorpheobo]@PoptartPoptart no way!!! That's really awful behaviour when they were just trying to do the right thing. I really hope they don't do that to me, there will be no cover work being set or marking being done by me if so! [/quote]
Have your school not out in a plan?. DS's' state school have tested live feed teaching and have explained that if teachers are isolating they plan to have them dial in and give lessons with a TA in the class for ,'crowd control'. Not ideal but better than nothing Obviously not if the teacher is ill but if they are self isolating and not ill, they can still deliver a lesson . They planned all of this this as well as how to broadcast lessons live online from school to pupils at home over the summer and tested it during the first term. They even had a day when all students ( except year 12 and 13) stayed home for a day and logged in to attend a normal timetable of lessons from home to test it and to see which students would not be able to do it and to iron out technical problems Surely your school has a plan on what to do if a teacher is self isolating but not actually I'll. I know you may get ill but you may be able to work from home even if I'll if it is a mild case.

@bumblingbovine49 I have actually walked past classrooms in my school and seen this happening in other subjects but I've just been asked to set cover work. Not ideal at all but I'm relieved as I'm dreading the possibility of going back to live remote lessons as I found it so difficult to teach.